More than 100 schools told to close buildings over safety fears

In inspections that I have worked on, H&S maintenance checks on the fabric of the school have been carried out at a different time completely.
Local Authorities are renowned for checking one aspect at a time in many schools, eg all schools in one area have their electrics checked in the same month.

Callistemon21

This has been a disaster waiting to happen since these prefab buildings were thrown up as cheaply as possible in the 1960s to 1980s.

It's amazing that many Victorian buildings are still standing although many need extensive refurbishment.

Many of the Victorian buildings are also at risk of collapse because austerity has slashed maintenance budgets and for example, hospitals were not designed to take the weight of modern equipment as well as electrical and plumbing requirements. It came up earlier this year when the government broke its promise to build 40 new hospitals
They include St Mary’s hospital in Paddington, west London, parts of which date back to 1845. Over the last year ceilings have collapsed in two wards, sewage has leaked into the pharmacy and parts of the Cambridge wing – the oldest part of the hospital – have had to be mothballed because the floor was no longer strong enough to support the clinical services there

www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/25/broken-pledge-over-40-new-hospitals-will-leave-nhs-crumbling-ministers-told

growstuff

The issue was discussed in the House of Lords in June.

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2023-06-20/debates/7C03C9E8-12AC-4259-AA42-FA73FFE8DC5C/SchoolBuildingsSafety

The problem has been "under discussion" for many years

One wonders what the plan is for the 34 hospitals that are in danger of collapse that was discussed a year ago
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/14/ministers-admit-hospital-buildings-england-roofs-could-collapse-any-time

So what’s with the timing? Wait until the children are due back and then close the schools. Something on the nose there.

CASDON and that may be the case but the programme of new and refurbished schools here show a willingness to deal with a problem and NOT just announce a new initiative that never happens as does with your government .
Similar to our affordable homes.over 120 thousand new homes in the same timescale ,over 70% of them not just affordable but social or as we call them COUNCIL houses.Thats because we have a government which is delivering on manifesto pledges and councils who dont USE their housing budget have it taken off them and given to councils who do build the right houses ....for people who need them.My area has hundreds of lovely new homes scattered across it .Dont believe the media spin about Scotland suffering under devolution ,nothing could be further from the truth

Surely the question here is poor management by the government. The shadow education secretary asked about this
problem many, many times in Parliament and nothing was done.
Where is their safeguarding in this?

You just couldn’t make it up, this material had a 30 yr life and was used from the 1950s onwards, they knew the risks yet did nothing.
This is serious because its roof material any wind or snow load would cause collapse, older classrooms are long overdue for replacement rather than repair, some newer buildings probably could be reinforced.

Have the days of caretakers and premises managers disappeared from state schools? Headteachers and academic staff shouldn't have to report and sort building issues, they aren't experts, and it is a waste of their valuable teaching time. If schools can't afford to have non academic onsite staff to carry out checks, then regular specialist teams should be sent in.

I thought I’d seen that this problem has been known about since the middle nineties. Successive governments have done nothing. Apparently in 2018 it became more urgent but still nothing was done. While the country was tying itself in knots over Brexit, our schools and other public buildings were about to crumble in front of our eyes. It’s really disgraceful.
I don’t understand why this clearly unsuitable material was ever allowed to be used when it’s life was only about thirty years. Oh yes, of course, it’s cheap!

I don’t understand why this clearly unsuitable material was ever allowed to be used when it’s life was only about thirty years. Oh yes, of course, it’s cheap!

Yes. It seems to be LA and Government policy to always accept the cheapest quote.

Buy cheap, buy twice. False economy.

Of course it makes sense to buy the best, but there is never sufficient money for the amount of building needed for an expanding population, and accommodation is needed immediately. I spent at least a quarter of my teaching career in mobile classrooms, and actually they were preferable to the old Victorian school and the new open-plan one that replaced it. All these new estates being built without regard for schools and hospitals; £6 million a day would go some way to building facilities for the existing population.

Oh yes, the mobiles!
No sooner was the new school near here completed than they doubled the number of pupils and put mobiles in the grounds.

It is so short-sighted.
Of course we can afford it, we are not a third-world country and our children deserve better.

The Local Authorities or Metropolitan Boroughs are responsible for building maintenance in state schools and have rolling programmes to ensure regular checks are carried out as part of their statutory duties.
Quite clearly, as with nearly all aspects of local government, they have been starved of funds over decades, just like the NHS by governments intent on austerity. Many have lobbied the government continuously and got no- where.

All state schools have caretakers, often onsite or very near. Their responsibility will be individual in their contract- most will be responsible for employing and managing cleaners, opening and closing school gates and perimeter security, liasing with groups who rent the premises, setting alarms, break- ins and much more. The issue of keeping schools secure throughout the day , monitoring visitors access ( with the school office) is a top priority.

ImogenMac

All state schools have caretakers, often onsite or very near. Their responsibility will be individual in their contract- most will be responsible for employing and managing cleaners, opening and closing school gates and perimeter security, liasing with groups who rent the premises, setting alarms, break- ins and much more. The issue of keeping schools secure throughout the day , monitoring visitors access ( with the school office) is a top priority.

No they don't. The last school I worked in had two cleaners, one of them was the Senior Cleaner, responsible for organising and supervising the other one. All the other jobs were done by the Head or senior teaching staff or the school secretary. The jobs of moving stuff and putting stuff away was done by us teachers. Any caretakers I remember didn't work during the school day but did split shifts say 7-10am then 2-6pm. And I never knew one who organised the letting out of the school premises
Teachers do many of the tasks you have given to caretakers.

Cleaning staff is often outsourced these days (goodness knows why) especially in academies.

Only a few years ago the caretaker at the secondary school here lived on site, but no longer.

eazybee

Of course it makes sense to buy the best, but there is never sufficient money for the amount of building needed for an expanding population, and accommodation is needed immediately. I spent at least a quarter of my teaching career in mobile classrooms, and actually they were preferable to the old Victorian school and the new open-plan one that replaced it. All these new estates being built without regard for schools and hospitals; £6 million a day would go some way to building facilities for the existing population.

Most secondary schools had a ROSLA block built in the early 70s to accommodate the increase in the school leaving age in 1973-4.
In the 1990s, I taught in a classroom in one. There was supposed to be wall insulation (nearly 30cms if the distance between the outer wall and the support was an indicator). Consequently there was a plastic panel between pupils and a 4m drop. They'd run out of money. It was supposed to have a pitched roof. It didn't, it had a leaky flat one.

Regulations and guidelines for safety of premises have changed enormously in the last few years and quite rightly so.
Anyone who has worked in a school recently will be aware of strict security, identification and DBS procedures.
CCTV throughout all entrances and exits frequently checked is not uncommon.
Caretakers are now Premises managers and go on designated courses to update them. It was certainly almost a part- time job in the past but now they are regarded as a vital part of the school team

Germanshepherdsmum

Better now than wait for an accident to happen.

better surely, to have inspected/sorted out any problems before term started?

An article in the Guardian today pointed out that the construction industry was not closed during covid but schools were. I suppose no one put two and two together and thought this might be a good opportunity to cast an eye over the schools to see if any maintenance was needed.

HousePlantQueen

Germanshepherdsmum

Better now than wait for an accident to happen.

better surely, to have inspected/sorted out any problems before term started?

Indeed for goodness sakes.

This visionary zero-carbon new school had to be demolished after just six years.

At least the Head Teacher could find something positive to say:
Head teacher Jill Mahon said 90% of the material would be recycled locally.
How can you be sad when it is being reused," she said
We are seeing a whole process which couldn't be much richer for the children.

BBC November 2016

Just a little reminder for those who just cannot understand how this happened;

www.theguardian.com/education/2010/oct/22/school-building-projects-michael-gove-cuts

Almost as soon as they took power in 2010, Gove, as Education Secretary cancelled the bulk of the schools building and refurbishment programme started by Gordon Brown.

This, good people, is down to this administration, and nobody else.

On another point; all those Tory favourites/donors who are running Academy Trusts and making huge profits, will they have to pay for the refurbishment themselves?

There is not one thing improved by 13 years of Tory government, everything, but everything has got worse from NHS, Life expectancy, housing, schools, water, roads.........

ImogenMac

Regulations and guidelines for safety of premises have changed enormously in the last few years and quite rightly so.
Anyone who has worked in a school recently will be aware of strict security, identification and DBS procedures.
CCTV throughout all entrances and exits frequently checked is not uncommon.
Caretakers are now Premises managers and go on designated courses to update them. It was certainly almost a part- time job in the past but now they are regarded as a vital part of the school team

But caretakers aren't building surveyors.