Voter ID led to racial and disability discrimination

JRM drunk?
What a thought 😂😂😂

You can get free ID from your local council. It's been well advertised.

Well maddyone who knows?😂

What JRM said isn’t what Franbern said tho.
His opinion was that altering voting requirements would dampen down older votes, which he mistakenly thought would mean less Conservative votes.
I think he’s wrong on both counts, as older people are likely to have ID, and sure don’t all vote Tory either!
It was just his own personal opinion and not a Tory message.
If asking for ID is gerrymandering then most of Europe is guilty of it.Plainly it isn’t.

but you cannot compare with europe, as they already have to have ID cards anyway.
we do not.

And as a report by the lefty guardian newspaper what do you expect!
Loads of voter fraud going on before this especially with the ethnic minorities and their postal votes even if not all was found out .

Well then, let's look at what Rees Mogg actually said, at the National Conservatism conference in Westminster,

'Parties that try and gerrymander end up finding their clever scheme comes back to bite them, as I dare say we found by insisting on voter ID for elections'

If you click MaizieD's link, you will get the full effect.

Zoe65

And as a report by the lefty guardian newspaper what do you expect!
Loads of voter fraud going on before this especially with the ethnic minorities and their postal votes even if not all was found out .

The "lefty" Guardian was writing about a report co-authored by the "non lefty" Robert Buckland MP, who was the Justice Secretary responsible for introducing the new rules.

I worked as a poll clerk or presiding officer at elections for over 40 years, until a few years ago. It often struck me that a system entirely based on trust was open to fraud. I just had to ask each voter for their address and name, then mark the register and give them their voting paper. How did I know if they were really that person? They didn’t need to show their voting card. The only instances of recorded fraud are where either voting staff or tellers outside recognised the person as someone other than they purported to be - not very likely to happen. There could be widespread ‘personation’ that we just don’t know about. I often worked in polling districts with many foreign students (who are allowed to vote in some elections). They would often walk in and immediately proffer their ID. They were surprised when I said I didn’t need it. But how do you know I’m who I say I am, they said. Oh we take you at your word, I’d say - they just looked amazed.
I think showing ID is a good idea - fraud in everything else seems to be increasing, why not in voting. Most people over retirement age get a free bus pass (I certainly do and I think this is widespread across the UK) with their photo on which can be used as ID, so they don’t have to have a passport or driving licence. As for the immunosuppressed lady (as I am myself), of course she should have got herself a postal vote - what on earth was she doing going out to vote in a mask? Ridiculous! As for the argument that she should be entitled to do whatever she wants and we should accommodate that no matter what, I just despair! If we want to live in a civilised society, we must accept that there are rules we need to abide by and this one is a very easy one to comply with.

Zoe65

And as a report by the lefty guardian newspaper what do you expect!
Loads of voter fraud going on before this especially with the ethnic minorities and their postal votes even if not all was found out .

The report was by a Parliamentary All Party Group.

Plenty of other media reported on it. I just chose the Guardian because it doesn't have a paywall.

Try focussing on all the words in a post, not just one...

Sparklefizz

How would you prevent voter fraud which we know has happened in the past?

One way would be to do as other countries do.

You are eligible to vote if you have received a notification of the election and which polling station to go to by post more than three days prior to the ballot taking place AND if you provide proof of your identity by having your social security no. with you and checked against the address you are registered as living at.

Britain has always refused to have a citizens' registry in the way most countries in Europe do, where every citizen is responsible for registering his or her permanent address with the citizens' registry within a certain number of days after moving from one permanent address to another, and to register any inhabitants of the same flat or house who are legal minors.

Frankly, without this kind of registry I doubt that it is possible to avoid people voting who have no right to do so.

So what would all you hardliners do with a Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?

And, disability is a protected characteristic. Which means that one has to make accommodation for it

Disability discrimination is when you are treated less well or put at a disadvantage for a reason that relates to your disability in one of the situations covered by the Equality Act.

The treatment could be a one-off action, the application of a rule or policy or the existence of physical or communication barriers which make accessing something difficult or impossible.

The discrimination does not have to be intentional to be unlawful.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/disability-discrimination.

I will point out once again, that making laws on the basis of belief rather than hard evidence is extremely unwise...

MaizieD surely a side room is available for a female polling officer to check the id of a burka wearing female? Seems to me that you are not applying simple common sense to these examples.

The Muslim Council of Britain has outlined the process for voting which gives the simple solution above.

Years ago I worked for a government agency where we frequently had to ask for ID even though we were well aware that anyone can get a false ID by following the clear and easy instructions given by Frederick Forsyth in his book The Day of the Jackal. The key to it all is the "original" birth certificate You simply get the birth cert of someone who died as a child. It is what spys do. We civil servants we used to try and tell line management this but it was like talking to a brick wall. It was then, and I believe it still is, the cheapest way to get a false ID.

Incidentally no one ever has their "original" birth cert. That always remains in the registry off where you were registered. Often when people refer to an original birth cert they mean the first copy their parents ever got or a copy from the central registry office. Anyone can get anyone else`s birth cert.

ronib

MaizieD surely a side room is available for a female polling officer to check the id of a burka wearing female? Seems to me that you are not applying simple common sense to these examples.

If there's a side room it involves the poll clerk has to leave the main room. So they could also go outside with someone who doesn't want to remove their mask in an enclosed environment...

Perhaps extra training will improve poll clerks' ID handling skills...

MaizieD

So what would all you hardliners do with a Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?

And, disability is a protected characteristic. Which means that one has to make accommodation for it

Disability discrimination is when you are treated less well or put at a disadvantage for a reason that relates to your disability in one of the situations covered by the Equality Act.

The treatment could be a one-off action, the application of a rule or policy or the existence of physical or communication barriers which make accessing something difficult or impossible.

The discrimination does not have to be intentional to be unlawful.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/disability-discrimination.

I will point out once again, that making laws on the basis of belief rather than hard evidence is extremely unwise...

‘All you hardliners’
😂
Dear oh dear.

ronib

MaizieD surely a side room is available for a female polling officer to check the id of a burka wearing female? Seems to me that you are not applying simple common sense to these examples.

I think common sense has long departed.

Oreo

ronib

MaizieD surely a side room is available for a female polling officer to check the id of a burka wearing female? Seems to me that you are not applying simple common sense to these examples.

I think common sense has long departed.

It's a long and tiring day being a poll clerk and you are not allowed to leave the building at all for the duration.

You can, of course, have a break on the premises.

Ensuring the ID of the voter is necessary now and anyone not willing to prove their ID won't be allowed to vote.

Everyone should know that by now.

Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?
If that’s the case -apply for a postal vote. Religion is a protected characteristic. Clothing isn’t-though men in some places want to make it so.

Could you just remind me how these women in burkas get through passport control? Or do they never go out of the country?
We have several local women who are totally covered. I have no idea how they deal with proving identity.

Mollygo

*Muslim woman wearing a burka who refused to remove it if there were men present?*
If that’s the case -apply for a postal vote. Religion is a protected characteristic. Clothing isn’t-though men in some places want to make it so.

Could you just remind me how these women in burkas get through passport control? Or do they never go out of the country?
We have several local women who are totally covered. I have no idea how they deal with proving identity.

I think there could be a problem with postal votes in what might be a patriarchal family.

When I travelled through a Muslim country, at the airport I was taken into a side area, protected by a curtain, to be patted down/searched by a woman. I wasn’t wearing a burka.

I obviously look suspicious.

I agree with you Callistemon. My guess is that there's greater potential for voter fraud with postal voting than voting in person (with or without voter ID).

I've read (anecdotally) that's it's easy to pick up voting cards sent to people in HMOs, where there tends to be a high turnover of tenants and people don't always change their addresses. A dishonest landlord (or anybody else) could use the cards from tenants who have moved on. There is, as you say, the alleged problem with patriarchal families, who return a batch of cards.

It would be possible to cast quite a few postal votes fraudulently and nobody would be the wiser. People voting fraudulently in person would have to go to different polling stations, unless they risk polling clerks not noticing that the same person is voting with different IDs.

I think there could be a problem with postal votes in what might be a patriarchal family.
Sadly I think you’re right. Either the freedom to vote how you want (fraud)
or the refusal to allow a vote at all, in which case, chances are the women would not be allowed to apply for voter ID.

Zoe65

And as a report by the lefty guardian newspaper what do you expect!
Loads of voter fraud going on before this especially with the ethnic minorities and their postal votes even if not all was found out .

Since when has anyone who doesn’t agree with the conservatives right wing stance been labelled left wing. Just because you question shouldn’t mean you are biased or left wing. I find derogatory comments like this very worrying