Voter ID led to racial and disability discrimination

My guess is that there's greater potential for voter fraud with postal voting than voting in person (with or without voter ID).

That's what I think, too, growstuff.

They're not exactly the guarantee of an individual's vote being secret and free of third party influence/coercion that a polling booth is.

Voter ID has been a requirement in one part of the UK, Northern Ireland for many years. I found it strange when I moved back here but people seem to have got used to it and doesn't seem to be a problem. I wasn't living here when it was introduced so don't know if caused problems at first.
I don't have an opinion about the rights or wrongs of it but just think it's interesting that it's been so accepted here and so little awareness in rest of UK that it has been in place here for a long time.

Voter ID was introduced in NI because there was a great deal of voter fraud during 'the troubles'. Specific and evidenced reason for its introduction.

MaizieD

Witzend

vegansrock

To those saying there is very little evidence of voter fraud- how do you know? Statistics are no proof here- Prosecutions will be low because it was so easy to do people could easily get away with it and never be discovered. I’m all for universal ID like many other democratic countries (countries which are actually more democratic than our archaic system). .

I was just thinking the same. It’s often said that there’s very little evidence of benefit fraud - but that’s surely because, by definition, the only cases known of are those where it’s already been proved.

I dare say the same could be said for election fraud.

I’m another in favour of ID cards - IMO it’s crazy that we don’t already have them. The world has changed a lot since the days when (except for wartime) they were considered unnecessary and very un-British.

I am astounded and appalled.

So it's absolutely fine to take away people's rights and freedoms on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever? Because it 'might' be happening under the radar?

I presume you are aware that voter ID has been a requirement in Northern Ireland ( part of the U.K.) for decades. It has worked very well. Also the majority of European countries require voters to have ID. As has been said before if you wish to collect a parcel from the post office you must show

Yes, Mcbab and I think we all also know the reasons behind it .. but it is only just "decades" as I think it came in in 2002.
I know the were lots of "voters" who were "lost" under the system of individual registration!

I was put off postal voting when my DD missed out on voting in the first general election after reaching the age of 18, as the papers failed to arrive in time! She had no choice as she was a student at the time, but was understandably incensed. As a result she registered to vote in her university city after that.

I have only once applied for a postal vote when I was expecting to be out of the country on a school trip. In the end I was ill with shingles but I got my vote!

I was disenfranchised at the first election with voter ID as I caught Covid so couldn't leave the house! I was too late to get a postal vote!

It seems there are plenty things that can go wrong and no system is perfect.

Next year we will have to navigate the system for proxy votes as DD has moved to Dubai!

As regards collecting a parcel at the post office, they accept a bank card (not photo ID) but wouldn't accept my work ID card which had a photo on it! Where's the sense in that?

Maisue, just why are you so against ID. Only if someone has something to hide should they be worried. It's about Natiinal Security. Anyone coming to our country to live should swear allegiance to it. If a woman wears a Burkha and won't remove it, don't expect to vote or travel. Dread to think how they cope in 30 degrees.

Sparklefizz

MaizieD Now please explain why it ......
Actually I don't have to explain anything. I asked a question and you tried to answer it.

This was in answer to facts given by Maisie in answer to a fallacious question based on bias.

Yet again, no-one will be surprised at the irrelevance of this answer. When will the "Granny" generation educate themselves and not simply use cultural bias when debating a political point.

"Chat" has for years been the safe haven for the "I'm entitled to my opinion" brigade and N & P the place for debate. Thus seems to have changed. Where now is the safe space for factual, logical debate?

Thus This

MaizieD

I'm afraid that personal views of what one would do contribute nothing to the debate. Every individual has the right to choose to vote in whatever way they would like to. It's not up for criticism.

So if they choose not to get free voter ID, that's their choice and thefore do not want to vote.
Personal responsibility, not the States.

Countries, lives, politics and rules evolve, voter ID is just one of these…

Rules don't 'evolve', GG13, they're not organic. They are deliberately made to serve a purpose. Not always with pure motives, as Rees Mogg disclosed...

Rules made on the basis of no evidence of need for them must always be suspect. Particularly when they remove a freedom or a right.

Maisie, you ask a lot of questions, people answer, you rubbish their answers, why?
Can you please answer a few questions as it's relevant to your post. If you have nothing to hide, what's wrong with ID. No one is so special they have no responsibility to their neighbour or country. Why would anyone living here not want to be part of the country they tried so hard to enter, think the rules have to be changed for them? We don't have X Ray eyes, can't see through a mask or a burkha, it could be anyone, just because they say who they are is not enough, why do you think it is? Is it at all possible you have answers. I would love yo know what job you have that gives you these insights.

Am on a tight schedule but someone might want to check out Mogg’s varying positions on voter id. Quite different when leader of the House but hey ….

ronib

Am on a tight schedule but someone might want to check out Mogg’s varying positions on voter id. Quite different when leader of the House but hey ….

That was when he was in a government post and thought that voter ID would give the tories an electoral advantage. He discovered that it didn't. I don't see what there is to 'check out'. It's a logical sequence.

I would have answered you, Allsorts but when your post turned racist it didn't really seem worth the effort.

I’m not sure why it is a loss of “rights” or “ freedom” to have to show ID to vote. Perhaps the OP could let us know of any other countries that just allow people to rock up and say who they are with no checks. Is it a loss of rights to have a photo on a driving licence or bus pass? Seems like a fuss over nothing. Having ID has led to the capture of criminals in many countries. One of the problems we have with illegal migration is no ID , so easy for people to work under the radar.

Exactly vegansrock

Totally agree vegansrock

Today, a new report from the Electoral Commission has found that voter ID rules will impact people with lower incomes, with disabilities and from minority ethnic backgrounds. But the Government has responded to say its reforms are ‘very encouraging’ and that most people “adapted well to the rollout”.

While 4% of people who did not vote in May’s local elections said it was because of voter ID, the regulator said that the requirement is “likely to have a larger impact” at the next General Election, which could see hundreds of thousands turned away from polling stations.

“This is the second report in a week that has exposed deep problems with the Government’s voter ID rules. On Monday, a cross-party group of MPs called the policy a “poisoned cure” that “disenfranchises more electors than it protects”, “creates a real risk of injustice and potential discrimination” and “lacks the flexibility necessary to avoid injustices”.

Good Law Project

I think the issue would be entirely solved if everyone was issued with an ID.

MaizieD

I would have answered you, Allsorts but when your post turned racist it didn't really seem worth the effort.

The post by Allsorts didn’t ‘turn racist’ you just couldn’t or wouldn’t answer it.
Since you had introduced the burkha scenario a while back, asking how a woman would be treated/ turned away at a polling station, it was a relevant question by Allsorts.
You seem peeved that so many posters don’t agree with you on this voter ID question.
Vegansrock seems spot on to me.

Everybody, including ethnic minorities, those with disabilities
And those on low incomes have plenty of time before the next general election to make sure they have ID or to ask for a postal vote.

As so often on here, I remain completely baffled by how many people don’t undetstand barriers to participation, and why, despite having nothing to hide, some people have good reasons to prefer not, are afraid, lack the language or literacy (and that includes born and bred British people), to engage with officialdom.

Also even if you agree with ID for elections, surely you believe it’s important - vital - to have a system that does not disenfranchise anyone? And if so, since it’s clear that the current system does not do this, you have concrete proposals for how it can be appropriately and effectively ended?

Yes ID at birth. Everyone should be issued with an ID.

As it stands whether or not the requirement to have ID of some sort was an attempt at voter suppression, it will always be open to this interpretation until everyone is issued with an ID.