The NHS this winter. “Let’s be careful out there”. Needs must it seems.

I still maintain that if doctors had put in a more realistic pay claim, the government would be more inclined to negotiate.
If they gave in to this ridiculous 35% demand, what would happen? Other unions would immediately put in similar ludicrous claims, wouldn’t they?

Yes of course we were all grateful to medics during the pandemic and we all made sacrifices to ‘save the NHS’ but now it’s in everyone’s interest for the long waiting list for treatment to be tackled.

Consultants and junior doctors are apparently planning to strike on the same days to cause maximum disruption.
I think it’s disgraceful.

The doctor's pay claim is realistic. It represents the amount needed to bring their pay back to the level it was before the tories froze public sector pay in the name of 'austerity'.

Oreo

silverlining48

Well where would we be if we were all something’ in the city.’
Who would do the stuff which allows others to make a comfortable living, the healing, the caring the cleaning the teaching, the policing and everything else which oils the wheels of society. It is not and should not be all about profit.

My pension after a lifetime of public service is a little under £6000 gross pa.

If it’s not about profit ( their own) then what are the doctors and consultants striking for? I think we know, it’s all about the money honey.Maybe if they did a little less private work and put more into helping NHS patients the waiting lists for the NHS would be a bit shorter.

I think you have your priorities the wrong way round, Oreo

Why on earth should doctors and consultants, who had their pay frozen for a decade, feel obliged to work their socks off for minimal reward when it is the last 13 years of tory government which have, by underfunding the NHS for no good reason, created the mess that it is in now?

The enormous waiting lists are not down to the NHS staff, they are down to the government's treatment of the NHS.

My priorities are just fine thanks.Did you know that striking doctors asked their Union if they could do their private work during the strike days? The Union said yes! It is all about the money and they are asking for a ridiculous rise.They’ll keep it going until a change of government hoping that Labour will give them more.It may do but nothing like what they’re asking for.
I believe that after giving a certain number of years to only working for the NHS, doctors and consultants then decide if they’ll work only for the NHS or just do private work, but not
both.
Private hospital work brings more money but there are other reasons to work only for the NHS such as better equipment and research and maybe a little something called a vocation.

If they don’t do both types of work, there’ll be even less doctors in the NHS. Is that what you want to achieve?

There aren’t the amount of private hospitals around, it’s not as if they can all just give up NHS hospitals and many won’t want to.At the very least patients in NHS hospitals should all be just that, and not private patients being treated there by NHS doctors doing their private work there.
The nurses settled their dispute and I think doctors and consultants should as well.

It isn’t and shouldn’t be possible to dictate that doctors can’t do private work

It should be possible to exclude private work being carried out in NHS hospitals.

Where there’s a will there’s a way!
So many things a Labour government needs to change.

I don't expect Labour to ban private medical care. They ensured it would continue in 1947 when setting up the NHS. And of course many Labour voters use it and, I dare say, Labour bigwigs.

The vast majority of private work is carried out in private hospitals such as the Spire hospitals. There are other groups too. The NHS uses private hospitals for surgeries and other treatments, and so it would be foolish for any government to bite the hand that feeds it, so to speak. The government needs the facilities that private hospitals offer.
As for doctors working in the private sector, remember it is only consultants and well qualified doctors who can do so, and consultants work under contract to the government, and so they work whatever hours they negotiate and are only paid for those hours. So some might work two or three days a week (particularly parents who still have young children) whilst others may work full time, and indeed work overtime. Consultants can be called into the hospital at any time when they are off duty to see emergency, complex cases. This happened to me. The consultant came in to see me on a Sunday lunch time. He was in the middle of lunch at someone’s house, but left the lunch and came to the hospital.
I think many misunderstandings occur because people don’t actually know or understand how doctors contracts work. Please remember, we do not own medics. They are free to negotiate and sell their skills to whoever they wish, just as other occupations do.

My priorities are just fine thanks.

Maybe if they did a little less private work and put more into helping NHS patients the waiting lists for the NHS would be a bit shorter.

So it's fine to be castigating doctors for not sorting out the mess that the tories have made of the NHS over the past 13 years, Oreo?

I wonder how you'd feel if you'd had your pay frozen for a decade and were expected to work extra hard in deteriorating conditions to sort out the mess your employers have made of your workplace.

Or perhaps you feel that doctors have always been overpaid and don't deserve to have their remunerstion restored to pre austerity levels?

Why should they expect huge percentages when others can’t have them?
Why don’t they settle at a realistic amount as the nurses did?
And no what they are asking is nowhere near realistic.
I reserve my sympathy for lower paid workers.
Yes, give them a raise but not something way out of line with others in the NHS.

I don't see any reason why the doctors should settle just because other health service workers have settled.

They want to be back where they were in 2010. Before the tories started destroying the NHS. That's why they're asking for 35%. I don't for one moment believe that they thought they would get it. It's a figure to negotiate from.

I think, in terms of their qualifications, training and job responsibility, compared with their peers they are lower paid workers. (So are teachers) I have sympathy with all public sector workers who have been badly treated by the tories.

We can't afford to lose any more doctors. They are able to take their skills anywhere unlike some other sectors and many are doing that.
They should be paid what they are worth to us.

Oh I don't know. I had to pay for a private op in 1985 (waiting list), I had to pay for another one in 2003 (waiting lists), and now I'm having to pay to see a private GP, if I want a service, and a private dentist, no NHS ones available.🙄

Whoever is in power, the NHS just stumbled from one crisis to another. It needs cross party reform, but no one does it. They just keep throwing money at it, to no avail.

The whole reason that the NHS is in chaos now is because 'they' haven't been throwing money at it.

It's been underfunded since 2010.

MaizieD

The whole reason that the NHS is in chaos now is because 'they' haven't been throwing money at it.

It's been underfunded since 2010.

I agree with your post except I think the underfunding goes further back than 2010.
I also think that part of the chaos is due to the poor organisation within the NHS itself.
If the pay isn’t good enough to attract and retain staff in the wards and theatres, it isn’t going to be improved by appointing more and more management.
Then, there’s the state of some of the hospitals!

This goes back much further the 2010. I'm not saying it is not underfunded, but this has been going on for decades.

It needs cross party root and branch reform - with more and more medical procedures, and an increasing ageing population (with collapsing social care), something needs to change.

And it's not all about hurling more money at it.

DiamondLily

This goes back much further the 2010. I'm not saying it is not underfunded, but this has been going on for decades.

It needs cross party root and branch reform - with more and more medical procedures, and an increasing ageing population (with collapsing social care), something needs to change.

And it's not all about hurling more money at it.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

At least more money for doctors, especially junior doctors (who are of course not only the most junior doctors, but include some highly skilled medics right up to Senior Registrar) because improving the pay situation for these doctors might improve the retention of our doctors. It would be a beginning, but this government won’t do it, and I’m not even remotely convinced that the next government will either.

DiamondLily

This goes back much further the 2010. I'm not saying it is not underfunded, but this has been going on for decades.

It needs cross party root and branch reform - with more and more medical procedures, and an increasing ageing population (with collapsing social care), something needs to change.

And it's not all about hurling more money at it.

Hmmm.
I gound this blog which describes all the 'reorganisations' which the NHS has been through. It's been in a pretty constant state of churn since the early 1970s. The last one was effected during the covid crisis. It has also been periodically underfunded.

It's no wonder it has problems.

I'd suggest that the next SoS for Health just gets it properly funded and the leaves it alone for a whike!

lowdownnhs.info/explainers/nhs-reorganisation-a-never-ending-story/

found, not 'gound' grrrrrr 😱

So you’d rather pay footballers and pop stars top money than Doctors? I can’t believe some of these posts. We welcome fully trained doctors from the UK with open arms and we pay properly. You get what you pay for.

However much money is thrown into the bottomless pit won't be enought, too many people here now for it ever to be viable. If you feed a group of four adequately on 100 pounds, how would you feed a group of 100? Eventually it will private health care for those that can afford it and queues and chance for those that can't. .. It's already a postal lottery where you get the best treatment.
I'm not in favour of the strikes. Also, think the amount paid to footballers sickening, but that's up to the public for enabling it.