20mph speed limit....for or against?

Casdon, I can’t see why it’s not possible to drive safely at 20 either. Some roads near me (not in Wales) have been 20 mph for a while, and I seem to manage it.

Also for all those people who say about public transport -what public transport? It takes me approx 20 minutes in an easy run to get to work by car for 8 am - to catch a bus I would have to leave a good 1.1/2 hours earlier, and still walk 15/30 minutes each end of the journey! Then the same at the end of the day. Would they do it - no way, so why should I?

The housing estate that my son lives on (in England) has had a 20 mph limit for a few years now . To be honest I think it needs to be so low as there are cars parked both sides of bendy roads and it’s so hard to see what traffic is coming towards you , any faster and I’m sure that there would be many more accidents .

I'm in Wales. Nobody, not a single person I've met or talked to disagrees with such a limit at schools - on school days and during term time, hospitals, leisure centres, housing estates and the like. Putting this limit on arterial routes no matter what the time of day is plain madness. My car engine spins faster in 2nd or 3rd gear at 20 ( it often changss as an automatic ), so puts out more pollution and I'm in the area 50% longer. I anticipate increased wear and tear. Try it on a clear stretch of road when there's nothing else around and see how loñg you last ( as a taxi driver dropping off clients at 3am told me ). Recent studies showed that in the first week a busy road in Cardiff dropped from an average 22.8mph when 30 to 19.8 when 20. If it was 22.8 anyway what was the point of spending £32M implementing this. It's a busy out of town shopping area in the day but closed at night - although 20 remains. We're told well have a grace period when you will be "educated" but after that could find yourself with 3 points and a fine. Most responsible drivers will adjust according to the conditions - traffic, people, weather etc. Those who don't care won't take any notice anyway.

I don't know how to edit the post but want to amend...

We're told well have a grace period when you will be "educated" but after that could find yourself with 3 points and a fine for driving at 22/23mph ( allegedly GoSafe allow 10%+1mph but I don't want to test the theory. We end up with cars driving at 15-18mph.

MayBee70

….and ULEZ was instigated by Boris Johnson but I assume you know that?

Yes it was, and utterly radicalised by a Labour Mayor. Oh yes, you can drive your non compliant car in London, but you must pay us a fine. A cash cow for Kahn. What's he doing with all the cash he's raking in, I'd like to know. Hopefully compensation for those workmen who lost businesses because of this scheme. I doubt it though.

Casdon

Callistemon21

As long as they get the speeds co-ordinated.
20mph sign with 30mph painted on the road right by it?

Booze-ups in breweries comes to mind.

I’d agree regarding the speed signs being clear, ambiguity is likely to cause confusion and potentially accidents. I think it probably varies as to how good they are by LA area, as they are responsible for erecting the signs?
It’s the comments about not being able to drive properly at 20mph that are worrying me.

They have put small 20mph signs on every lamppost on some roads but they're temporary, apparently and will be discarded soon.
Recycled? Or dumped?

Councils have until September 17, 2028, to remove small round 20mph repeater signs - these are usually attached to lampposts, or their own small post, within 20mph zones. The same five-year period of grace applies to 20mph road markings. Some councils, like Flintshire Council, are already beginning to implement the work. In an X (tweet), the council stated: “The removal of these road markings doesn’t mean 20mph speed restrictions have been removed.”

NWL reports that some motorists are worried about the potential cost of removing the signs. “It makes no sense all,” said a Facebook user. They added: “If they want us to do the speed limit. Surely it costs nothing to leave them up?” Cost estimations for signage replacement across Wales show that they amount to £21.9m, at 2022 prices
Wales will become the UK's first 20mph nation this month, but some residents were baffled to find the council removing existing 20mph signs. The new 20mph default speed limit implemented by the Welsh Government will come into effect on September 17, 2023.

Wales Online

🤔

If the default speed is 20mph but they remove the 20mph signs, how will visitors know what the speed should be?

Ridiculous and potentially a danger. Constantly watching the speedo to avoid getting a fine is already a problem and this will make it worse. Can’t help thinking that like so many things these days it is a money grubbing exercise masquerading as a safety issue. What we need are better educated drivers and proper sentencing for those who cause injury or death on the roads. Often a three year ban, a paltry fine and maybe a desultory prison sentence, suspended, or none at all. I know someone whose young daughter was in an accident whilst in a car driven by her mother’s new husband. She was killed. He got a fine for dangerous driving and points on his licence. The grieving father received more points on his licence for some petty vehicle infringements than he had! Can’t be right and the law itself has to change regarding this rather than an ill thought out reduction in speed limit.

Hope that does not come to my city or neighborhood in the US. Absolutely required around schools, perhaps some downtown areas.

Anywhere else, 20 mph is just too slow! Slow drivers cause accidents too and tempers to flare.

Gundy, I know that some roads in the USA have a speed limit of 55mph. Don't some people find that too slow? I think that like most changes in vehicle safety law, it's something that you have to get used to. Did you have the fuss that we had about the introduction of compulsory seatbelt-wearing and drink-driving limits? I remember both, and a lot of the reaction to this measure, which affects only residential areas after all, seems to me to be the same. It's interesting that quite a few posters, in various places, who have been living with 20mph limits for a while have become used to it and can deal with it.

You're getting the idea, welcome to Wales

Freya5

MayBee70

….and ULEZ was instigated by Boris Johnson but I assume you know that?

Yes it was, and utterly radicalised by a Labour Mayor. Oh yes, you can drive your non compliant car in London, but you must pay us a fine. A cash cow for Kahn. What's he doing with all the cash he's raking in, I'd like to know. Hopefully compensation for those workmen who lost businesses because of this scheme. I doubt it though.

Well, if he gets in again next year's Mayoral election, (God forbid), he's found himself yet another cash-cow:

Charging to use Blackwall and Silvertown tunnels. 🙄

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66923782

We're been trying to get it in our small town for years and driving round a few places I haven't found it a problem, yes it seems slow in some places and yes I have sympathy with delivery drivers but here in Wales social media has whipped up the hate. Looking at places which have had it a while, Bristol, Spain etc I'm in favour. My attitude is give it a few months, make adjustments where needed and return a few roads to 30mph and by next year it will be like the smoking ban, nobody going to a pub in recent years would even think about lighting up.

How will it be policed?

Our road has a 20mph limit, we regularly see cars and motorbikes going more like 40 mph. Makes me so angry there are a lot of elderly people and children living here it will take an accident for things to change.

Snowbell

How will it be policed?

I know how it will be policed where I am, we’ve got the community speed check volunteers (local residents) everywhere, the first time they catch people with their speed cameras a warning is issued, the second time it is an endorsement on the licence. I don’t know how common these bands of volunteers are across Wales, but I’ve seen them in a few places in Monmouthshire as well as in Powys where I live. We also have speed vans, I expect they will just park them up in random places and clock speeders that way.

I once read that research had been done in an accident-simulation facility which showed that, while the number of injuries at 30 mph were lower than at 20 mph, a child was more likely to be killed at 20 mph than 30 mph because at the slower speed the child was more likely to be dragged under the car sustaining fatal injuries, whereas at 30 mph the child was more likely to bounce off the bonnet and therefore more likely to survive injuries sustained. Unfortunately, I can't seem to be able to find the link to the article otherwise I would have posted said link.

Casdon

Snowbell

How will it be policed?

I know how it will be policed where I am, we’ve got the community speed check volunteers (local residents) everywhere, the first time they catch people with their speed cameras a warning is issued, the second time it is an endorsement on the licence. I don’t know how common these bands of volunteers are across Wales, but I’ve seen them in a few places in Monmouthshire as well as in Powys where I live. We also have speed vans, I expect they will just park them up in random places and clock speeders that way.

We saw a speed van last week for the first time for ages.

There's a 40mph limit on not very busy a dual carriageway - which has no houses, no buildings at all on one side and just distant factories on the other!

I didn't know hat the community speed check volunteers were able to issue warnings or endorsements on licences. That cannot be legal, surely? I thought it was just to collate general information to pass on to the Council or the Police?

www.aph.com/community/holidays/can-community-speed-watch-volunteers-really-give-drivers-a-speeding-ticket/

Good revenue raising measure if nothing else!

Callistemon21

Casdon

Snowbell

How will it be policed?

I know how it will be policed where I am, we’ve got the community speed check volunteers (local residents) everywhere, the first time they catch people with their speed cameras a warning is issued, the second time it is an endorsement on the licence. I don’t know how common these bands of volunteers are across Wales, but I’ve seen them in a few places in Monmouthshire as well as in Powys where I live. We also have speed vans, I expect they will just park them up in random places and clock speeders that way.

We saw a speed van last week for the first time for ages.

There's a 40mph limit on not very busy a dual carriageway - which has no houses, no buildings at all on one side and just distant factories on the other!

I didn't know hat the community speed check volunteers were able to issue warnings or endorsements on licences. That cannot be legal, surely? I thought it was just to collate general information to pass on to the Council or the Police?

I got this from the national Community Speedwatch website:

‘Registered keepers of vehicles exceeding the speed limit are contacted - initially with a letter explaining the potential risks and consequences of their dangerous behaviour. Repeat offenders will receive a visit from the local police, irrespective of where they live. Beyond these friendly gestures, focused enforcement and criminal prosecution follow based on the collated evidence. ‘

I know because I was ‘done’ going through Usk a couple of years ago, and it said that in the letter. They do act as a deterrent though, that’s probably the main purpose - there always seem to be quite a few of them so you check your speed automatically if you spot them. I now do the same if I see anybody near the road in a fluorescent tabard, so they must be doing some good! The other thing they’ve achieved near me through lobbying the council is those flashing signs have been erected to tell you if you’re over the limit, which also work.

GRANOFOUR I would be very interested in reading that if you find the link.

I think 20 mph is an appropriate speed limit in some situations. I don't think a main road in London that is also a red route and not residential is suitable but ours has been put down to 20 mph.
It seems to all be a part of demonising car travel. We have bus lanes that are now 24/7 despite there not being any buses on that route overnight. They worked perfectly OK with their timed exclusions, so why change them?

Wheniwasyourage… when we had mandated seat belts, we all got used to them eventually (and glad for it!) except for the crazy few who STILL don’t practice that.

55 mph speed limits are on many four and six lane major thoroughfares throughout communities and a very appropriate speed. There are specific neighborhoods that have 45, 30 and 20 mph limits that are generally observed, except for the few crazy people who never pay attention to anything and are hazards.

Our interstate highways are set at 70-75-80 mph according to each state’s laws.

It happens everywhere in the world, some people think it’s the autobahn. Just for them.

Casdon

Callistemon21

Casdon

Snowbell

How will it be policed?

I know how it will be policed where I am, we’ve got the community speed check volunteers (local residents) everywhere, the first time they catch people with their speed cameras a warning is issued, the second time it is an endorsement on the licence. I don’t know how common these bands of volunteers are across Wales, but I’ve seen them in a few places in Monmouthshire as well as in Powys where I live. We also have speed vans, I expect they will just park them up in random places and clock speeders that way.

We saw a speed van last week for the first time for ages.

There's a 40mph limit on not very busy a dual carriageway - which has no houses, no buildings at all on one side and just distant factories on the other!

I didn't know hat the community speed check volunteers were able to issue warnings or endorsements on licences. That cannot be legal, surely? I thought it was just to collate general information to pass on to the Council or the Police?

I got this from the national Community Speedwatch website:

‘Registered keepers of vehicles exceeding the speed limit are contacted - initially with a letter explaining the potential risks and consequences of their dangerous behaviour. Repeat offenders will receive a visit from the local police, irrespective of where they live. Beyond these friendly gestures, focused enforcement and criminal prosecution follow based on the collated evidence. ‘

I know because I was ‘done’ going through Usk a couple of years ago, and it said that in the letter. They do act as a deterrent though, that’s probably the main purpose - there always seem to be quite a few of them so you check your speed automatically if you spot them. I now do the same if I see anybody near the road in a fluorescent tabard, so they must be doing some good! The other thing they’ve achieved near me through lobbying the council is those flashing signs have been erected to tell you if you’re over the limit, which also work.

I'm getting rather fed up of being nannied though!!

Just logged on to Waitrose and there is a 25% offer off wine if you buy six bottles.
Good, I thought, six bottles will last us a month, buy them now.

Nothing came off at checkout - so I looked again and the 25% off is not applicable in Wales, Scotland or Jersey!
Even if we moved just across the border, the nearest Waitrose would probably be in Wales and some addresses in England have a Welsh postcode anyway.
Cheers Mr Drakeford. 🥂