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Braverman in the USA

(152 Posts)
MayBee70 Wed 27-Sept-23 00:11:10

I’m so ashamed that she’s representing my country in such a horrible way in America. At least people are now questioning the fact that as a daughter of migrants she now wants to stop other people from fleeing oppression.

growstuff Wed 27-Sept-23 18:27:26

ronib

Growstuff the remit for my dissertation was given to me and it was a difficult topic. It involved field work. I think my tutor was very interested in finding out about the vast kinship networks and the different names ascribed. I eventually found this out. Very different to the standard nuclear family!

You should have mentioned that it wasn't representative of all immigrant families.

CoolCoco Wed 27-Sept-23 18:19:18

It’s the Tories who have flung open the doors - no sign of any attempt at control.,

varian Wed 27-Sept-23 18:15:27

Was our immigration policy was far too liberal when we allowed the economic migrants who were Suella Braverman's parents into the UK ?

Callistemon21 Wed 27-Sept-23 16:31:17

pinkquartz

Many women who are married and are Muslims are not allowed by their husbands to learn English.
Often they are not allowed to leave their home unless accompanied by a male relative.
There is no choice in this.
If it was made compulsary for recent immigrants to learn English these women could have a taste of freedom.

Girls are allowed to go to school but not to mix in any way with English children outside of school.
This is one way integration is stopped.

No all Muslim families are like that.
It depends on the culture of the country where the family originated from quite often.
Our neighbours certainly weren't, the girls played with my DD and this was years ago. Our godson's wife is a liberated woman as is friend's DIL.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 27-Sept-23 16:27:19

It was a rhetorical remark

Callistemon21 Wed 27-Sept-23 16:25:17

Whitewavemark2

Callistemon21

Nevertheless, they were immigrants and are still Muslims
Not all. Some were Hindu.

My boss many years ago was an Indian Roman Catholic.

Isn’t Braverman Jewish?

My grandsons girlfriend is from Egyptian parentage and Christian, (well a humanist actually but from a Christian upbringing)

You should never assume anything.

I didn't.

Grantanow Wed 27-Sept-23 16:23:56

This jaunt to talk to a foreign right-wing group should not be funded by the UK taxpayer.

Siope Wed 27-Sept-23 16:22:28

I think the worst thing about Braverman’s (and those of her ilk in her party) repeated lies is - apparently, if many Gransnet threads are anything to go by - how many people believe them.

I genuinely cannot be bothered to reiterate all the facts and figures, or what is actually legal for asylum seekers, or explain again exactly why neither Braverman nor anyone knows how many boat arrivals have been granted asylum, because it’s whistling in the wind.

I will waste a paragraph or two correcting her new lies about the risk of discrimination for women and gay people being enough for an asylum claim. The Refugee Convention protects women and gay people (along with other social groups) when, and only when, the discrimination they face is serious enough to count as persecution.

Persecution is defined in British immigration law (by that well known liberal, Pritti Patel) as

- sufficiently serious by its nature or repetition as to constitute a severe violation of a basic human right, in particular a right from which derogation cannot be made under Article 15 of the Human Rights Convention, or

- an accumulation of various measures, including a violation of a human right, which is sufficiently severe as to affect an individual in a similar manner as specified in paragraph (a).

The persecution may, for example, take the form of-
(a) an act of physical or mental violence, including an act of sexual violence; a legal, administrative, police or judicial measure which in itself is discriminatory or which is implemented in a discriminatory manner;
prosecution or punishment which is disproportionate or discriminatory;
denial of judicial redress resulting in a disproportionate or discriminatory punishment; prosecution or punishment for refusal to perform military service in a conflict, where performing military service would include crimes or acts as described in Article 1(F) of the Refugee Convention (on which, see section 36).

DiamondLily Wed 27-Sept-23 16:11:57

MayBee70

Primrose53

JenniferEccles

I think the point Braverman was making was that Europe, including us of course, can’t be expected to absorb the potentially millions of people from, say, Africa and the Middle East who fancy settling here.

She quite rightly pointed out that the vast majority arriving illegally on the dinghies are economic migrants.

This situation can’t be allowed to continue can it? The daily rate now of housing these arrivals in hotels is now seven million pounds a day.
Horrifying isn’t it?
Something has got to be done, but every single plan the government has come up with has met fierce opposition from Labour, yet Yvette Cooper had the brass neck to criticise the Tories for failing to get to grips with the problem.

Of course the reaction of the majority on here to Suella’s speech was entirely predictable.

Completely agree JenniferEccles.

Paying out £7million every day could be much better spent on our own people who have worked and paid taxes here. Then there’s the millions we have paid to France and Turkey to do their bit which there’s not much evidence of.

People need to know that if they vote Labour the doors will be flung open and our country will be unrecognisable.

My husband was talking to a customer this morning who had taken his son to Leicester at the weekend. He had never been there before and was genuinely shocked that he only saw one white person on his route through the city. Of course, we knew as we lived there for 13 years and still visit.

I thought Leicester was one of this countries multicultural success stories and it was only recently that there was some trouble (can’t remember the circumstances or what actually happened). Oh and part of that 7 million pounds a day is coming from our reduced overseas aid budget which which has already been accounted for financially. This does sometimes get mentioned on the news channels but not enough for it to stick in people’s minds.

Last I read, there was a problem with asylum seeker bills here being taken from the aid budget:

icai.independent.gov.uk/home-office-asylum-costs-could-no-longer-be-counted-as-aid-under-illegal-migration-act/

MayBee70 Wed 27-Sept-23 16:01:34

Primrose53

JenniferEccles

I think the point Braverman was making was that Europe, including us of course, can’t be expected to absorb the potentially millions of people from, say, Africa and the Middle East who fancy settling here.

She quite rightly pointed out that the vast majority arriving illegally on the dinghies are economic migrants.

This situation can’t be allowed to continue can it? The daily rate now of housing these arrivals in hotels is now seven million pounds a day.
Horrifying isn’t it?
Something has got to be done, but every single plan the government has come up with has met fierce opposition from Labour, yet Yvette Cooper had the brass neck to criticise the Tories for failing to get to grips with the problem.

Of course the reaction of the majority on here to Suella’s speech was entirely predictable.

Completely agree JenniferEccles.

Paying out £7million every day could be much better spent on our own people who have worked and paid taxes here. Then there’s the millions we have paid to France and Turkey to do their bit which there’s not much evidence of.

People need to know that if they vote Labour the doors will be flung open and our country will be unrecognisable.

My husband was talking to a customer this morning who had taken his son to Leicester at the weekend. He had never been there before and was genuinely shocked that he only saw one white person on his route through the city. Of course, we knew as we lived there for 13 years and still visit.

I thought Leicester was one of this countries multicultural success stories and it was only recently that there was some trouble (can’t remember the circumstances or what actually happened). Oh and part of that 7 million pounds a day is coming from our reduced overseas aid budget which which has already been accounted for financially. This does sometimes get mentioned on the news channels but not enough for it to stick in people’s minds.

DiamondLily Wed 27-Sept-23 15:22:20

The doors have been flung ever wider open under Tory rule, so "whatsboutery" regarding Labour is not relevant.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

I do agree that we need to sort out our homeless first though. It's getting ridiculous.🙁

Primrose53 Wed 27-Sept-23 15:12:19

JenniferEccles

I think the point Braverman was making was that Europe, including us of course, can’t be expected to absorb the potentially millions of people from, say, Africa and the Middle East who fancy settling here.

She quite rightly pointed out that the vast majority arriving illegally on the dinghies are economic migrants.

This situation can’t be allowed to continue can it? The daily rate now of housing these arrivals in hotels is now seven million pounds a day.
Horrifying isn’t it?
Something has got to be done, but every single plan the government has come up with has met fierce opposition from Labour, yet Yvette Cooper had the brass neck to criticise the Tories for failing to get to grips with the problem.

Of course the reaction of the majority on here to Suella’s speech was entirely predictable.

Completely agree JenniferEccles.

Paying out £7million every day could be much better spent on our own people who have worked and paid taxes here. Then there’s the millions we have paid to France and Turkey to do their bit which there’s not much evidence of.

People need to know that if they vote Labour the doors will be flung open and our country will be unrecognisable.

My husband was talking to a customer this morning who had taken his son to Leicester at the weekend. He had never been there before and was genuinely shocked that he only saw one white person on his route through the city. Of course, we knew as we lived there for 13 years and still visit.

vegansrock Wed 27-Sept-23 14:52:17

The tories have evidently failed in their lie that we would “take back control of our borders” - the slogan that won them the narrow victory in the Brexit vote. Yes, there needs to be some control , some legal routes, and cooperation with other countries. This seems to be beyond the wit of our zombie government. Why this speech was widely reported is puzzling - she could have saved the air miles and read it out at the Tory party conference.

Whitewavemark2 Wed 27-Sept-23 14:35:44

MayBee70

westendgirl

I cannot understand why Braverman went to USA to give a speech of 30 minutes, at tax payers expense to an extreme right wing centre.She has failed .abysmally in everything she has done The big problem seems to be lack of assessment, but of course
it is not her fault.Because we are not processing there is a backlog causing more problems. For Braverman its all about big headlines.

DH has told me that it was funded by people from the Republican Party….didn’t she get into big trouble before over something similar, something to do with Israel?

Yes, she got the sack, and only came back in because she promised the support from the right wingers if Sunak reinstated her.

MayBee70 Wed 27-Sept-23 13:58:22

westendgirl

I cannot understand why Braverman went to USA to give a speech of 30 minutes, at tax payers expense to an extreme right wing centre.She has failed .abysmally in everything she has done The big problem seems to be lack of assessment, but of course
it is not her fault.Because we are not processing there is a backlog causing more problems. For Braverman its all about big headlines.

DH has told me that it was funded by people from the Republican Party….didn’t she get into big trouble before over something similar, something to do with Israel?

Marmin Wed 27-Sept-23 13:49:56

Turkey has 3.6 million refugees. Iran has 3.4 million.
We have less than one hundred thousand. France and Germany have multiples of our number.

Words like 'swamped' are despicable and ignorant. Given the global problems what we see now is just a trickle. But one practical thing the government could do that has a zero price tag is lift the economic sanctions it imposes. The seven million refugees mentioned come from Iran and Afghanistan. Guess who we apply sanctions against?
But apparently gay people and women are the problem.
Oh dear.

ronib Wed 27-Sept-23 13:36:45

Growstuff the remit for my dissertation was given to me and it was a difficult topic. It involved field work. I think my tutor was very interested in finding out about the vast kinship networks and the different names ascribed. I eventually found this out. Very different to the standard nuclear family!

MaizieD Wed 27-Sept-23 13:05:33

She quite rightly pointed out that the vast majority arriving illegally on the dinghies are economic migrants.

How can she possibly know that when most of their asylum applications haven't even been processed yet?

Prior to the massive backlog in application processing which has built up since 2019 3 out of 5 applications were approved. Unsuccessful applicants were 'returned' in a timely fashion

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/deportation-and-voluntary-departure-from-the-uk/

pinkquartz Wed 27-Sept-23 12:57:53

Many women who are married and are Muslims are not allowed by their husbands to learn English.
Often they are not allowed to leave their home unless accompanied by a male relative.
There is no choice in this.
If it was made compulsary for recent immigrants to learn English these women could have a taste of freedom.

Girls are allowed to go to school but not to mix in any way with English children outside of school.
This is one way integration is stopped.

westendgirl Wed 27-Sept-23 12:56:10

I cannot understand why Braverman went to USA to give a speech of 30 minutes, at tax payers expense to an extreme right wing centre.She has failed .abysmally in everything she has done The big problem seems to be lack of assessment, but of course
it is not her fault.Because we are not processing there is a backlog causing more problems. For Braverman its all about big headlines.

Grantanow Wed 27-Sept-23 12:54:20

She is disgusting. It's all about chasing racist, anti-immigrant votes at the coming GE and positioning to succeed Sunak. She would be an appalling leader of the Tories.

DiamondLily Wed 27-Sept-23 12:49:42

The meeting audience only involved a few people. They weren't exactly storming the doors to get in.🙄

(I've reprinted the article because it's a paywallsmile

'Suella Braverman has tried sending asylum seekers to Rwanda, but so far they’ve taken £120m off her and not taken a single one.

She’s tried putting them on a barge off the coast of Dorset, but they had to be taken off again when they found Legionella in the water supply.

She’s tried everything she can think of, but nothing’s worked.

Which is why all that was left was for her to fly to a very small room in Washington DC, to tell the world that it was making her look very stupid indeed, and so therefore it has to change.

Many people will have found Braverman’s speech on “migration”, with its pantomime cruelty and downright disgusting language, enraging. But mainly it was laughable.

Perhaps the biggest laugh came at the end, when the cameras pulled out on this heavily anticipated intervention to reveal what looked like a hotel business centre, and an audience of roughly nine people, each with a giant table to themselves.

Braverman is the most embarrassing element of a government that each day looks noticeably more dead than the day before.

It is like one of those David Attenborough timelapse videos of some unfortunate creature rotting away on the forest floor, except that it’s not being sped up. It can all be seen very clearly in real time.

Her boss, the prime minister, chose at the beginning of the year to stake his reputation on “stopping the boats”. It was chosen, clearly, because to do so would be to his electoral advantage. But also chosen incredibly naively, because success is almost entirely beyond his control.

And this is where it leads. Specifically, to a home secretary who is never happier than when issuing softly spoken proclamations about her own capacity for cruelty, standing in front of a world that absolutely does not care what she thinks, or even know who she is, and telling it that it has to change.

She was here to tell the world that “the global asylum framework” has to change. She was telling this to nine people who looked like they walked into the wrong seminar at a chartered accountants convention and were too polite to leave.

She was announcing that the only way she and Rishi Sunak can dig themselves out of their little hole is if the entire world changes all of its agreed rules on migration and asylum – and hoping the world maybe wouldn’t notice that both of them were predictably passionate devotees of walking away from Britain’s position of influence on the world stage, as it did seven years ago.

She was here to say that, from now on, asylum seekers should have to apply for asylum in the first safe country they reach. And if they don’t?

Well, this woman you’ve never heard of, who’ll be out of government in a year, to be replaced by someone who avowedly disagrees with absolutely everything she’s got to say, will be very, very annoyed.

“Policies of externalisation, such as our policy with Rwanda, must be recognised,” she said. To which the only question to ask back is: “Or what?”

What is going to happen? What, exactly, is Suella Braverman going to do?

She said that, from now on, asylum seekers shouldn’t be allowed to “shop around for their preferred destination”. That the global asylum system, as it currently exists, incentivises migrants to, in her own words, “try their luck”.

One of the people who’ve “tried their luck” in recent years is an Afghan man who was in fear for his own life in his own country through having assisted Nato forces when they were fighting there, but after the US and UK pulled out and the Taliban returned, discovered there were no legal routes through which he could apply for asylum in the UK. He “tried his luck”, and it ended at the bottom of the Channel.

She spoke of such people, and she said that “none of them have good cause for illegal entry”. As if risking your life to assist British forces is not good cause to hope that that country might treat you better than, say, France, if you can just somehow make it there.

It hardly needs to be stated that the world isn’t going to change its ways in accordance with the wishes of a British government that has spent the best part of a decade turning itself into an international embarrassment.

Nor does it need to be stated that such events have more than one intention. This one, mainly, is quite rightly interpreted as the beginning of Braverman’s leadership bid. It’s hard to say whether it got off to a bad start, as it can only be compared to her last one. And that was when she went on ITV to tell Robert Peston that she was “throwing my hat in the ring” in the Tory party leadership contest, even though it hadn’t actually started not merely because the prime minister, Boris Johnson, hadn’t resigned, but also because neither had she."

www.independent.co.uk/voices/suella-braverman-migration-immigration-washington-b2418891.html

Whitewavemark2 Wed 27-Sept-23 12:42:15

JenniferEccles

Well obviously the increase in migration has exacerbated the situation by increasing our population to an unsustainable level.

Over many decades this country has done its fair share of accepting migrants in genuine need, as well as those who have come to work in the NHS, but there has to be a limit.

There are just too many who know how to play the system by claiming to be ‘persecuted’ and those are the ones who Braverman is suggesting we crack down on.

This is a world wide problem, and I admire her for being prepared to speak up about it, knowing as she would, what the reaction from the Left would be.

It isn’t just the left who are alarmed by her rhetoric, many in the Tory party are in despair - except for the far right of course.

JenniferEccles Wed 27-Sept-23 12:39:20

Well obviously the increase in migration has exacerbated the situation by increasing our population to an unsustainable level.

Over many decades this country has done its fair share of accepting migrants in genuine need, as well as those who have come to work in the NHS, but there has to be a limit.

There are just too many who know how to play the system by claiming to be ‘persecuted’ and those are the ones who Braverman is suggesting we crack down on.

This is a world wide problem, and I admire her for being prepared to speak up about it, knowing as she would, what the reaction from the Left would be.

Dinahmo Wed 27-Sept-23 11:53:47

Urmstongran

Well something needs to be done. The UK situation is becoming untenable. And extremely expensive.

What is untenable in the UK is lack of housing and the cost of that which is available; the running down of the NHS; lack of investment in schools; lack of investment in infrastructure( apart from HS2); the state of the economy. Not the numbers of immigrants.