Tell me how this is right?

Ali23
these threads are always biased
Yes, that’s true, whichever way you look at it.
Some are biased towards supporting male lies and cheating - all trans women are transwomen not women and therefore not female. Many TW may not choose to cheat, or lie, or make demands or claim female rights, but there are obviously many who do.
If you disagree with that, you are biased towards supporting the lies and cheating carried out by some of the transwomen.

Others are biased towards biological truth, that males cannot become female, either by statement or by surgery.
Those biased towards the truth see men claiming awards that rightfully belong to women not transwomen, (females not males) or for being a woman
as offensive.
People choose which bias they support.

Galaxy

Well you can identify as anything but it doesnt make it true. It also reinforces stereotypes in a rather brutal way.

What you say is true.

Anyone else noticed how often there are trans contestants on Unichall and Only Connect? I'm not complaining or discriminating, just interested.

Dinahmo

Anyone else noticed how often there are trans contestants on Unichall and Only Connect? I'm not complaining or discriminating, just interested.

Yes, it's interesting.

Lunatic fringe.

Dinahmo

Anyone else noticed how often there are trans contestants on Unichall and Only Connect? I'm not complaining or discriminating, just interested.

I have noticed, but put it down to the link between Autism and gender-confusion that is prevalent amongst young people. Quiz programmes often attract the neurodivergent, so it is likely that transpeople will be overrepresented too.

I don't care one way or the other about that, as being male or female doesn't affect your chances of winning, and the contestants are not in an environment which puts others at any risk. It's not the same as a man running against a woman, or going into a changing room with teenage girls.

(I'm not suggesting that anyone else is saying they care either, incidentally )

Caravansera, I agree with pascal30 that your post shines some light on this, and the organisation involved seems to be a pretty single-issue one. Thank you.

I too had noticed that there seem to be a steady stream of trans contestants on Only Connect. It is also noticeable that most of them are getting on with the quiz and come over as interesting people, whereas in a few cases (and I think many of us will remember a particular one) they seem more intent on drawing attention to themselves than taking part in what is, after all, a team game.

Wheniwasyourage

I too had noticed that there seem to be a steady stream of trans contestants on Only Connect. It is also noticeable that most of them are getting on with the quiz and come over as interesting people, whereas in a few cases (and I think many of us will remember a particular one) they seem more intent on drawing attention to themselves than taking part in what is, after all, a team game.

True-and then it becomes part of the entertainment, though not the quiz.
E.g. Which man can do the best stereotype of what they see as a woman?
Will it be hair or ladling on the make up or the outfit, or even all three?

So an award organised by women, to recognise women is condemned because some people have a different view on trans issues than the organisers. How is that supporting women? You may disagree with them, you may not like what they do, but for goodness sake if you really support women you would acknowledge their absolute right to hold opposing views, and to give the award to whomsoever they judge to be the best.
No one undermines women better than other women.
Have your views but recognise other women have different views and are entitled to them.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906.
Monsieur l’abbé, je déteste ce que vous écrivez, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez continuer à écrire.

Here is one rendering in English:

Monsieur l’abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.

I wouldnt support a woman to murder. Just because they are a woman.
I wouldnt support a woman to do lots of things. Just because they are a woman.

Why? Is that what you do?

Glorianny

So an award organised by women, to recognise women is condemned because some people have a different view on trans issues than the organisers. How is that supporting women? You may disagree with them, you may not like what they do, but for goodness sake if you really support women you would acknowledge their absolute right to hold opposing views, and to give the award to whomsoever they judge to be the best.
No one undermines women better than other women.
Have your views but recognise other women have different views and are entitled to them.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906.
Monsieur l’abbé, je déteste ce que vous écrivez, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez continuer à écrire.

Here is one rendering in English:

Monsieur l’abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.

It is not 'supporting women' to blindly agree with everything a woman does. Suggesting that a woman who disagrees with another woman is idiotic. Do you agree with everything I say, for instance? Does your disagreement make you less supportive of women, or guilty of undermining women?

I accept that people disagree, and I respect their right to do so, but that doesn't mean that (a) I have to agree with them, or (b) that I am undermining womankind by saying so.

Glorianny No one undermines women better than other women. but what is a woman? In this statement of yours it appears to imply you're using the female-sex definition of women. Or are you agreeing that males however they 'identify' are enthusiastic underminers of women?

Rosie51

Glorianny No one undermines women better than other women. but what is a woman? In this statement of yours it appears to imply you're using the female-sex definition of women. Or are you agreeing that males however they 'identify' are enthusiastic underminers of women?

Rosie51 I fear you are asking an unanswerable question.
Glorianny, when you say,
No one undermines other women better than other women.
It’s unbelievable that you can’t see that what you say is exactly what you are doing. 🤷‍♀️

Suggesting that a woman who disagrees with another woman is idiotic.
Apologies - that should have read 'suggesting that a woman who disagrees with another woman is undermining women in general is idiotic.'

My phone is going mad with premature posting, cutting bits of sentences and autocorrect just now. I've recently updated it - maybe that's the problem.

Well, there you are.

Who is where?

Doodledog

Who is where?

Exactly*Doodledog*!

Vintagenonna
Enigmatic posts don't tend to add to the conversation. Any chance you could enlighten us a bit more?

Doodledog

Glorianny

So an award organised by women, to recognise women is condemned because some people have a different view on trans issues than the organisers. How is that supporting women? You may disagree with them, you may not like what they do, but for goodness sake if you really support women you would acknowledge their absolute right to hold opposing views, and to give the award to whomsoever they judge to be the best.
No one undermines women better than other women.
Have your views but recognise other women have different views and are entitled to them.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906.
Monsieur l’abbé, je déteste ce que vous écrivez, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez continuer à écrire.

Here is one rendering in English:

Monsieur l’abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write.

It is not 'supporting women' to blindly agree with everything a woman does. Suggesting that a woman who disagrees with another woman is idiotic. Do you agree with everything I say, for instance? Does your disagreement make you less supportive of women, or guilty of undermining women?

I accept that people disagree, and I respect their right to do so, but that doesn't mean that (a) I have to agree with them, or (b) that I am undermining womankind by saying so.

I disagree completely with your views Doodledog however should you choose to organise an event at which you gave awards and. you restricted those awards to women who were natal women I would consider that entirely your right. You don't have to agree with someone to recognise they have a right to behave the way they do.
It isn't a question of agreement. It is a question recognising and accepting differences.
As I said denigrating the women who have organised this event simply because their views differ from yours does absolutely nothing to further the cause of women. And sorry, if you refuse to allow the women organising this event to make judgements according to their own beliefs, you are undermining women. It's telling them they are wrong, something men have been doing for centuries.

fancythat

I wouldnt support a woman to murder. Just because they are a woman.
I wouldnt support a woman to do lots of things. Just because they are a woman.

Why? Is that what you do?

If a group of women organise an event based on their beliefs I would support their right to do so. It' called freedom of speech. nothing to do with murder. Although thinking about it I have supported women accused of murder, mostly battered women and those women accused of murdering their babies

I'm confused. This lady won a female award. What is the problem? I taught a little boy who was anxiety embodied. No one had any idea what was wrong with him and we couldn't help him. She is now a very happy, settled and non anxious young lady. I wish that those of you who believe that gender is defined by body parts could have met him as a boy and now meet her as beautiful young woman. Then you might understand what transgender people suffer.

vampirequeen

I'm confused. This lady won a female award. What is the problem? I taught a little boy who was anxiety embodied. No one had any idea what was wrong with him and we couldn't help him. She is now a very happy, settled and non anxious young lady. I wish that those of you who believe that gender is defined by body parts could have met him as a boy and now meet her as beautiful young woman. Then you might understand what transgender people suffer.

What is a female? If female is no longer to mean that sex which is organised to provide the large gamete in sexual reproduction, what one word does? If female is to go the way of woman and mean any Tom, Dick or Harry can declare themselves to be one, then it becomes meaningless.
Gender identity, if one has one, is not the same thing as sex. It is impossible to change your sex, your stereotype gender presentation is in your own gift.
I wish some of those who believe that self declaration changes someone's sex could meet women who have suffered at the hands of males and who are now expected to accept males in their previously safe single sex spaces. Perhaps their anxiety and fear doesn't count?

Do share more Vampire Queen.
Would your aforementioned case still claim to be female if directly asked?
Would they enter female competitions claiming to be female?
Would they take awards and jobs designated for females?
It’s the TW who have have done this who cause the problems not only for females, but for the TW who wouldn’t dream of doing such things.
I wish those TW could understand the damage they have done and I really wish they cared.

I wish those TW could understand the damage they have done and I really wish they cared.

Well said Mollygo.

Daisy Anne

They are pandering to the trans lobby!! I didn’t say they weren’t entitled to. Please read and digest before leaping in to protest.

My final word as I know you will carry on ad infinitum and I have neither the time or inclination.

vampirequeen

I'm confused. This lady won a female award. What is the problem? I taught a little boy who was anxiety embodied. No one had any idea what was wrong with him and we couldn't help him. She is now a very happy, settled and non anxious young lady. I wish that those of you who believe that gender is defined by body parts could have met him as a boy and now meet her as beautiful young woman. Then you might understand what transgender people suffer.

VQ, I completely sympathise with the little boy you describe, and have no issue with his living as a woman (whatever that means). Where I do have an issue is when men force themselves into female spaces - often flaunting erections and wearing beards - basically to show us that they can. I object to having the language changed to erase women, and to female sport becoming obsolete.

Sadly, those doing things like that have impacted on people like the person you mention - it is wrong, but as long as there are people using the cover of self-id for nefarious purposes there will be deep distrust of all transpeople. I wish this were not the case, but I can't see a way round it as long as self-id remains.