Tell me how this is right?

tickingbird

*Daisy Anne*

They are pandering to the trans lobby!! I didn’t say they weren’t entitled to. Please read and digest before leaping in to protest.

My final word as I know you will carry on ad infinitum and I have neither the time or inclination.

How is this "pandering" to the trans lobby when they are making the award to an LGBTQIA+ champion. They are obviously part of the LGBTQIA lobby. Can you really pander to yourself?

Could you stop issuing instructions, please. It is really is rather arrogant.

What female spaces? Where/Who are these men flaunting their beards and erections?

My young friend would happily tell you that she is female. Her development simply went wrong when she was in the womb in the same way that other birth defects can occur. A simple hormonal error at the wrong time and she came out with a male body. Fortunately we can now correct that birth defect with hormone treatment and surgery, just as we correct many other birth defects.

It's not a birth defect to be a man or a woman. What an odd thing to say.
Lots of people believe lots of things that doesnt mean I believe them too.
By the way many of the transwomen I talk to are very clear they are Male.

vampirequeen

What female spaces? Where/Who are these men flaunting their beards and erections?

My young friend would happily tell you that she is female. Her development simply went wrong when she was in the womb in the same way that other birth defects can occur. A simple hormonal error at the wrong time and she came out with a male body. Fortunately we can now correct that birth defect with hormone treatment and surgery, just as we correct many other birth defects.

She may define herself as a woman/girl and that is fine, she will feel that she is but her genotypic sex will be male.

Hormone treatment will not change her chromosomes.

I'm glad that she is happy and accepted as a woman/girl.

vampirequeen

What female spaces? Where/Who are these men flaunting their beards and erections?

My young friend would happily tell you that she is female. Her development simply went wrong when she was in the womb in the same way that other birth defects can occur. A simple hormonal error at the wrong time and she came out with a male body. Fortunately we can now correct that birth defect with hormone treatment and surgery, just as we correct many other birth defects.

Here's one who claims to be 'widening the bandwidth of what it means to be a woman.

Here is another filming in a woman's loo

Female spaces are places where women have traditionally gone to be away from men - usually because we are vulnerable. Changing rooms, loos, hospital wards, DV refuges, that sort of thing. They also allow women from religions that don't allow the mixing of sexes to have lives outside of the home.

As I say, I have sympathy with your friend - honestly I do. If she really believes that she is a woman, however, she will understand that there is a need for such places, and why.

I used to get confused when I saw the word trans/whatever.
I substitute it with ‘fake’ and that works for me every time.

vampirequeen can you honestly say all the furore of self identified transwomen, especially the criminal ones has passed you by? You didn't see one photo of Isla Bryson, the transwoman, a vision in pink, with a very obvious penis in their trousers? I was trying to upload a photo of the bearded transgender lesbian psychotherapist Alex Drummond, but the post kept failing but I see Doodledog got one to load.

Your young friend is not female despite surgery and cross sex hormones, and any DNA test would come back identifying them as a male. While it's good your friend is now happy, your total lack of awareness or empathy for those women affected by the inroads of males into their spaces is quite saddening. There are many, many transwomen that are honest enough to say they are still male, but enjoy living their lives as women.

Rosie51

vampirequeen can you honestly say all the furore of self identified transwomen, especially the criminal ones has passed you by? You didn't see one photo of Isla Bryson, the transwoman, a vision in pink, with a very obvious penis in their trousers? I was trying to upload a photo of the bearded transgender lesbian psychotherapist Alex Drummond, but the post kept failing but I see Doodledog got one to load.

Your young friend is not female despite surgery and cross sex hormones, and any DNA test would come back identifying them as a male. While it's good your friend is now happy, your total lack of awareness or empathy for those women affected by the inroads of males into their spaces is quite saddening. There are many, many transwomen that are honest enough to say they are still male, but enjoy living their lives as women.

I think that, like many people, vampirequeen has believed the persuasive rhetoric which has no biological evidence to back it up.

This discussion is going down the usual rabbit hole the anti-trans lobby focus on. To be clear, it doesn't matter what you believe a woman is, you are not organising and do not run these awards. The women that do have a wider concept of what makes a woman than you do. They are therefore entitled to give the award to anyone they consider meets the criteria.

To insist only your ideas have value and anyone should have to abandon thir own beliefs and use yours is simply dictatorial.

To insist only your ideas have value and anyone should have to abandon thir own beliefs and use yours is simply dictatorial

Yes. Absolutely.

Callistemon21

^To insist only your ideas have value and anyone should have to abandon thir own beliefs and use yours is simply dictatorial^

Yes. Absolutely.

Agreed.

Callistemon21

Rosie51

vampirequeen can you honestly say all the furore of self identified transwomen, especially the criminal ones has passed you by? You didn't see one photo of Isla Bryson, the transwoman, a vision in pink, with a very obvious penis in their trousers? I was trying to upload a photo of the bearded transgender lesbian psychotherapist Alex Drummond, but the post kept failing but I see Doodledog got one to load.

Your young friend is not female despite surgery and cross sex hormones, and any DNA test would come back identifying them as a male. While it's good your friend is now happy, your total lack of awareness or empathy for those women affected by the inroads of males into their spaces is quite saddening. There are many, many transwomen that are honest enough to say they are still male, but enjoy living their lives as women.

I think that, like many people, vampirequeen has believed the persuasive rhetoric which has no biological evidence to back it up.

So quite how does denigrating the women who established this award, telling women they have been misled, failing to recognise the very practical fact that society mostly judges gender and denying women the right to decide who qualifies for their award, help? Telling women they really don't understand has always been a male approach.

Bringing in other issues is simply ignoring what is really happening. There are women who will use any method to try and impose their own beliefs on women who simply disagree. As I said establish awards on the basis of your beliefs if you wish, but leave others to decide for themselves.

There are women who will use any method to try and impose their own beliefs on women who simply disagree.
Another self truth from Glorianny!

Chromosomes don’t have beliefs. They don’t lie. They don’t have opinions. They can’t dress in clothes or costumes. They don’t agree or disagree. They simply are either male or female.

Glorianny the award winner described themselves having won a female award. So having appropriated the word woman to encompass males, now female can encompass males too? Is there a word that denotes that sex which is designed to provide the large gamete within sexual reproduction, a binary throughout nature?
No matter how many times I ask this, nobody ever answers. I have to wonder why the avoidance.........
My objection was entirely about the appropriation of the word female. It is telling though that any award of this type invariably goes to a transwoman, never a natal woman. And if the category is non-binary it's invariably a non-binary male that wins, not a non-binary female. In the men's awards, guess who always wins....yep a man never a transman. But no it's not a men's rights movement, it's just coincidence.....

Birth defects happen all the time. Should we not repair club feet or cleft palates? What about babies born with heart defects? Should we leave them to die because that's the way they were born?

How do you know you're a woman? Do your chromosomes tell you or is it something you just know? I've always known that I was female. My husband always knew that he was male. We were fortunate that we were born in the correct body type. Are you willing to condemn people who were born into the wrong bodies?

Some of you have brought up the subject of sexual offenders. Sex crimes have nothing to with sex and everything to do with power. Far more men and women commit such crimes than transgender men and women. There are no safe places if a sexual offender chooses to strike.

Where are these safe places that some of you talk about?

There’s no such thing as born in the wrong body. This is a mental problem, not a physical problem. There is increasing evidence that people who believe they are in the wrong body have autism. It could also be caused by other mental problems. If some of these people wish to live, as far as is possible, as a person of the opposite sex, then that’s fine. Most get on with it quietly and without fuss. The problems are being caused by the vociferous few, some of whom advise violence or cancelling other, real women. This is simply unacceptable.

vampirequeen

Birth defects happen all the time. Should we not repair club feet or cleft palates? What about babies born with heart defects? Should we leave them to die because that's the way they were born?

How do you know you're a woman? Do your chromosomes tell you or is it something you just know? I've always known that I was female. My husband always knew that he was male. We were fortunate that we were born in the correct body type. Are you willing to condemn people who were born into the wrong bodies?

Some of you have brought up the subject of sexual offenders. Sex crimes have nothing to with sex and everything to do with power. Far more men and women commit such crimes than transgender men and women. There are no safe places if a sexual offender chooses to strike.

Where are these safe places that some of you talk about?

Far more men and women commit such crimes than transgender men and women
Have you even studied offending rates? Sex crimes committed by natal females are extremely rare. Those female offender rates will be negatively impacted by sex crimes committed by 'people with penises' being recorded as women's crimes because the offender 'identifies' as a woman.
Amongst transgender women (aka males) in prison, the proportion who have committed sexual offences is many times higher than that in the general male offenders. Sex offences are majority male offences no matter how the individual identifies.
I find your attitude crass, unfeeling and very offensive.

Where are these safe places that some of you talk about this says volumes!

Why don't you care that a rape victim might have to refer to her rapist as 'she' in court? Why don't you care that a rape victim in a support group may have to recount her trauma to a group that contains an obviously male-bodied person in a frock? Why don't you care that the vast majority of transwomen retain their penis, and a good proportion don't even take cross sex hormones? Why aren't you concerned with the anti-women protests that invite women to "suck my girl dick"?

I know I'm a woman because I have female biology. I do not know what it is to "feel like a woman" because I sincerely doubt every woman "feels" the same. I feel like me. If I, a natal woman. can't know how another woman feels, how can any man claim to know what it "feels like" to be a woman? Are we some homogeneous group?

vampirequeen would you care to answer the question I put to Glorianny?.......Is there a word that denotes that sex which is designed to provide the large gamete within sexual reproduction, a binary throughout nature?

Since you refer to your transgender friend as "female" even though they retain their male chromosomes, would you expect them to be invited for a cervical smear test or a prostate test, and can you see any potential problems?

I think you should be asking transwomen how they know they 'should be' a woman, and what that means to them, rather than expecting people who are women to tell you. I can only think that someone who is male will have a man's idea of what a woman is - based on cultural 'gender' norms.

I don't presume to say that I know how it feels to be a man - and if you asked say, Jacob Rees Mogg and Jeremy Clarkson you would get very different answers. There are different ways of 'being a man', just as there are of being a woman. I don't know how anyone can know they are something they have no experience of being.

It is true that there are no sae places if a sex offender chooses to strike - why do you think women want places for women and girls where men are not allowed? Someone with a penis saying he's a woman doesn't count - we need places where we are safe from men because there are no men there.

The argument that sex offenders will strike regardless of rules or restrictions is true, but does that mean we shouldn't try to mitigate against making it easier for them? If a burglar is determined to steal nothing will stop him (it is usually a male, burglary tends not to be a female offence) but most of us lock our external doors and shut windows in an attempt to thwart the burglar and drive him to an easier target. Should we just leave our doors and windows open because the determined burglar will gain access anyway?

I ask again. Where are these safe places? It doesn't matter where you are if a sexual predator chooses you as his/her next victim and, remember, there are genetically female sexual predators too. Are you suggesting that all men and women are sexual predators because of the actions of a few?

The arguments against transgender people remind me of the arguments made against gay people 50+ years ago. It's a mental condition that should receive psychiatric treatment. They shouldn't be allowed in public toilets because they may look at other users genitals. They shouldn't be in the military for the same reason and if they form attachments with each other then the cohesion of the group as a fighting force will be detrimentally affected. They dress inappropriately. They behave inappropriately. They're not normal.

What does it matter to any of you that a trans woman has won an award for doing something for a group that she belongs to and is accepted by? Was it an award you were nominated for? Is it an organisation that you work for? Are there not more important things to worry about than the gender of this prize winner?

So when people had believed for centuries that the world was flat, and scholars and educated people understood that wasn't, you would have just to told all around you that their hypotheses work for you as long as you see them as "fake", Urmstongran?

Did people doing that actually change the way we now see the world?

So the breakdown of violent sexual offences is pretty Male dominated, it 97 % of offences. No one is suggesting that trans people are any of the things you mentioned, they are saying that men commit offences at a different rate to women. It's one of the reasons transmen arent usually placed in Male prisons, because it would be dangerous. Or are you suggesting that sex segregated spaces as detailed in the equality act are in some way bigoted.

You can’t physically be born into the wrong body.
VQ your
mention that there are genetically female sexual predators too is an excuse often used by those supporting TW who lie and cheat to get what they want.
So if we’re not to condemn the actions of those TW who impact negatively on the lives of females and the non-confrontational transgender people, are you saying we should not condemn the female sexual predators?
No one as far as I’m aware, condones the treatment of G & L in the past, but since you’re making the comparison, are you claiming that G&L cheat/cheated and lie/lied and harm/harmed and deprive/deprived people of the opposite sex because they weren’t or aren’t either Gay or Lesbian?
I wasn’t aware of that.
Were/are there violent supporters of G&L like today’s TRA, who threaten/threatened or carry/carried out attacks on females?

Did L&G lie and claim to be something that is biologically impossible in order to take rights from other people?
I find the comparison of those TW (who lie and cheat or are violent and threatening towards females) with Gay and Lesbians distasteful and wrong. If you don’t, that’s your choice.