Charitable status and private schools

ronib

What counts as a pupil’s outcome - winning a place at Oxbridge or Russell Group? In which case, a certain group of highly selective schools do have a high percentage of students accepted by Oxbridge colleges.
Also academy schools exist in addition to comprehensive, grammar and sixth form colleges. Don’t academies also have charitable status?

You'd have to read the research to find out their criteria. I posted the link.

Having attended what was, frankly, a bad single sex Grammar school I don't have any great love for them. It certainly did nothing that a decent Comprehensive can't do now.

People play the system as far as grammar schools are concerned, I tend to have this argument with my husband he went to one and is of the opinion they give pupils from poorer backgrounds a chance. It's a fact that many families who enter their children for such highly coveted and very over subscribed places, start the preparation in extra curricular coaching from an early age, and they no doubt have the means to pay for whatever that costs, precluding those who can't afford to do that.

I think it would be good if we could emulate the German system, I had a German friend when we had young children together and she was of the opinion that here in England some were obsessed with private education, or maybe that's just where we lived. She said that wasn't the case in Germany most Germans were satisfied with the state system and they do appear to have a beneficial two forked approach, of an academic path but an equally valued educational trajectory as an entrance into worthwhile apprenticeships.

What counts as a pupil’s outcome - winning a place at Oxbridge or Russell Group? In which case, a certain group of highly selective schools do have a high percentage of students accepted by Oxbridge colleges.
Also academy schools exist in addition to comprehensive, grammar and sixth form colleges. Don’t academies also have charitable status?

thought

Have you not read the research I just posted, Nannarose?

Selective schools make no difference to pupil's outcomes.

Do Secondary Moderns still exist? I though it was just Comprehensives now.

If there were more grammar schools, it may be that there would be fewer pupils in independent schools. However, there would be many pupils failed, as there were back when most local authorities had selective systems.
Anytime I hear that there should be more grammar schools, I ask (if appropriate) if the person would like to see more secondary moderns. I rarely hear 'yes'. I occasionally hear 'well if they fail the 11+ they can go to comprehensives'. I am usually too kind to point out that their own education must be lacking if they think that is logical!!

How do academic selection systems affect pupils’ educational attainment? New evidence from an analysis of large-scale data on England

ABSTRACT

Extensive literature has compared the effect of selective schools with that of non-selective schools on pupil outcomes in England. However, evaluation of selective systems has been sparse and contradictory. From the perspective of educational equity, this study assesses the potential impact of academically selective school systems on pupils’ overall academic outcomes. To do this, we compare pupils’ academic performance in a selective system with that in a non-selective system using large-scale national data from England. The results show no evidence of a superior academic effect of selective systems on pupils’ academic outcomes. While the general results for the effects of the two systems reveal neither system to be superior, an internal pattern implies negative results from the selective system, from which high performers suffer. The findings collectively imply that maintaining selective systems for compulsory education is unlikely to generate any substantial academic gain.

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131911.2023.2240977#:

Sago

Whitewavemark2

Sago

Private/public schools do not have to follow the national curriculum and are therefore not “teaching the exam”.
This gives scope a more rounded education.

The other major factor is time, our boys started lessons at 8.40 and didn’t finish school until 9pm, there were breaks for tea, prep an extra curricula activity and supper.

Sport was played for at least 90 minutes a day and all afternoon on Wednesday for some pupils, Saturday school was 9.00 until 1 pm unless they were playing in a match then it could be much later.
Not all bank holidays were honoured.

I’m sure if state schools didn’t have to contend with SATs and league tables they could spend more energy on teaching.

Was the school called The Lowood Institution by any chance 😄😄

No, Jane Eyre was female therefore went to an all girls school.

😄😄. Guess what? I might have known that 😄😄

If schools retain charitable status under Labour's plans (U turn) does that mean they would be able to reclaim any proposed VAT anyway or pay a reduced rate on goods and services?

She was said to be academically bright and wanted to be a lawyer. What a waste.

The young schoolgirl who died during the senseless stabbing in Croydon went to a private school. Her name would indicate she was of African ethnicity. It's a fact that some African communities desire a stricter school regime with better pupil outcomes and will look towards the private sector to that end. Having lived in Croydon, way back long before I had children, it did seem that then that there were some bad state schools in that area, so it would be easy to understand just why the family of the murdered school girl wanted and expected something better than an establishment that had a laissez faire attitude towards discipline, a school where much of the time is devoted to crowd control rather than teaching! The Croydon I lived in back in the seventies felt fairly safe, now from all I read gangs and knife crimes are prevalent in that area and heartbreakingly this young woman got caught up in the milieu of some senseless piece of violence and all the promise of a successful life ahead was cut short.

I thought there must have been boarding Sago.
One of our grandsons attends an independent school and will be changing to another independent school next academic year. He will be a day boy, but there are some boarders there, and the facility to board one or two nights is available. My son and his partner are considering whether it would be nice for their son to board one night a week as there are all sorts of lovely activities on offer in the evenings. Grandson seems quite keen at the moment.

Oh maybe I’ve got it wrong, ooops! I really thought it was a Direct Grant school but it was a grammar school, not that there was much difference between the two.
Grammar schools, something that the Labour Party have denied to our children, even though so many of them, and us Gransnetters, have benefitted from when they existed. The abolition of grammar schools is what has forced many parents to choose independent schools. If grammar schools still existed there would be far fewer independent schools.

Whitewavemark2

Sago

Private/public schools do not have to follow the national curriculum and are therefore not “teaching the exam”.
This gives scope a more rounded education.

The other major factor is time, our boys started lessons at 8.40 and didn’t finish school until 9pm, there were breaks for tea, prep an extra curricula activity and supper.

Sport was played for at least 90 minutes a day and all afternoon on Wednesday for some pupils, Saturday school was 9.00 until 1 pm unless they were playing in a match then it could be much later.
Not all bank holidays were honoured.

I’m sure if state schools didn’t have to contend with SATs and league tables they could spend more energy on teaching.

Was the school called The Lowood Institution by any chance 😄😄

No, Jane Eyre was female therefore went to an all girls school.

maddyone

Were your children boarders Sago? Otherwise lessons till 9pm sounds like a very long day for the children. Probably they were doing homework then.
Although independent schools aren’t obliged to teach the National Curriculum, they are inspected by OFSTED and must be teaching to the required standards. Also, as all pupils need to sit national exams, GCSE and A levels, it would be a foolish school where the syllabus wasn’t taught.

By 9.00pm tea and supper had taken place and all prep was done and they had had at least an hour of extra curricula time, this could be anything from community work to computer club, book club etc.
It was not academia from dusk till dawn!
Also much shorter term times.

Our younger son boarded as we moved hundreds of miles away, our oldest boarded occasionally.

Sir Keir won a place at Reigate Grammar in 1974 after passing the 11-plus entrance exam. When he joined it was a state grammar school but two years later, following the abolition of the direct grant, it became an independent, fee-paying institution. He then received a bursary to fund his sixth-form studies at the school

No, it seems Direct Grant was introduced in 1945 so it must have been introduced alongside the introduction of the tripartite scheme. So he probably went as a grammar pupil alongside the private pupils.

I thought he went under the Direct Grant scheme Callistemon? Maybe he was too young and it became Direct Grant later. I know Direct Grant was abolished in 1975 but I’m unsure when it was introduced. It might have just been a grammar when he went, under the tripartite scheme.

Sago

Private/public schools do not have to follow the national curriculum and are therefore not “teaching the exam”.
This gives scope a more rounded education.

The other major factor is time, our boys started lessons at 8.40 and didn’t finish school until 9pm, there were breaks for tea, prep an extra curricula activity and supper.

Sport was played for at least 90 minutes a day and all afternoon on Wednesday for some pupils, Saturday school was 9.00 until 1 pm unless they were playing in a match then it could be much later.
Not all bank holidays were honoured.

I’m sure if state schools didn’t have to contend with SATs and league tables they could spend more energy on teaching.

Was the school called The Lowood Institution by any chance 😄😄

It isn't an oddly formed view.

It is a fact.

Starmer passed the 11+ and went to the selective Reigate Grammar School which became an independent school whilst he was a pupil there.
As he was a grammar school pupil his parents would not have had to pay fees when it became independent in 1976.

Some might argue that Starmer is biased because he went to a school which became private whilst he was a pupil there, although in fact he went through as a non-fee paying grammar school pupil. Callistemon

Andrew Marr did a piece asking Who is Starmer giving a wider view than we usually get.

Who is Keir Starmer, really?

I don't think the oddly formed view you quote is right, personally. Marr opens a few more doors into a bigger picture of the man, his background, and his politics.

Were your children boarders Sago? Otherwise lessons till 9pm sounds like a very long day for the children. Probably they were doing homework then.
Although independent schools aren’t obliged to teach the National Curriculum, they are inspected by OFSTED and must be teaching to the required standards. Also, as all pupils need to sit national exams, GCSE and A levels, it would be a foolish school where the syllabus wasn’t taught.

Private/public schools do not have to follow the national curriculum and are therefore not “teaching the exam”.
This gives scope a more rounded education.

The other major factor is time, our boys started lessons at 8.40 and didn’t finish school until 9pm, there were breaks for tea, prep an extra curricula activity and supper.

Sport was played for at least 90 minutes a day and all afternoon on Wednesday for some pupils, Saturday school was 9.00 until 1 pm unless they were playing in a match then it could be much later.
Not all bank holidays were honoured.

I’m sure if state schools didn’t have to contend with SATs and league tables they could spend more energy on teaching.

Whitewavemark2

Choice is is desirable.

The best education for the country’s children is essential.

This.

I also agree that every single child in our country should receive the best education, both academically and emotionally.