Sunak kills the Northern Powerhouse.

🤣

Casdon

Whitewavemark2

What I would add, is that they did not inherit remotely the absolute dire state that Starmer will inherit.

I know, that’s exactly how I feel too. I think it will take at least 5 years before the next government will be able to see the wood for the trees, never mind make any significant progress in improving peoples lot. Not promising what you can’t deliver is such a sensible approach now. The next few years will be expose after expose of the current ills I suspect, so let’s hope the electorate take notice.

Just hearing this on today.

Feisal Islam has been looking through the forty page document containing the new plans for what has been called Network North.

Some industry sources were withering about what they called "a disintegrated rail plan, that had been rapidly drawn up by Number 10 advisors with a crayon and a map" they said. The document appeared to mislabel the location of Manchester and argued funding from HS2 could be available for two new tram extentions, that were actually completed years ago.

The Government argues that there is greater value for money in smaller local projects and that has been shown to be the case with investment in buses, for example. It also says that HS2 alone, was taking up a third of the transport departments investment budget, crowding out other projects.

It's also moving swiftly ahead with selling properties secured for Phase 2 and removing safeguarding along the line that reserves use of some land. This would make it difficult for any future government to swiftly reverse the PM's decision.

today Today

Easy to forget that HS2 started under Gordon Brown ….. 😕

Casdon

DaisyAnneReturns

Whitewavemark2

What I would add, is that they did not inherit remotely the absolute dire state that Starmer will inherit.

I am still trying to get my head around the fact that when any party can talk, or even be allowed to talk, to the Treasury, before an election, is in the "gift" of the PM still amazes me.

I really am beginning to think we need a basic codification of our constitution that makes a government have to be more open - or we could have a new law, I suppose.

What exactly do you mean DaisyAnneReturns, surely the opposition, and for that matter the public should fully understand the state of the public purse and the impact of government policy on expenditure?

Isn't DAR saying that parties aren't allowed to talk to the Treasury unless they've been given permission to do so by the PM?

I'd like to know a bit more about this statement. Where hss it come from, DAR?

I didn’t welcome using Mrs Rishi to introduce him.

ronib. It’s impossible to forget HS2 started with Gordon brown as ‘some posters’ use that in an attempt to blame Labour for 13 years of mismanagement

While cancelling HS2 has solved a perceived financial problem we're still left with the problem that it was supposed to be a solution for.

That problem is one of capacity. The old lines cannot handle the traffic they are expected to carry because they can't put on enough trains. HS2 was meant to increase passenger carrying capacity and free up more freight capacity on the older lines.

While increasing connectivity between northern cities is very important and welcome we will still have a capacity problem to deal with.

ronib

Easy to forget that HS2 started under Gordon Brown ….. 😕

Pedantic, I know, but HS2 wasn't "started" under G Brown. An investigation, followed by a consultation took place.

Love him or loathe him, I can't imagine things getting as out of hand under his watch as they have under the multiple Neo-Liberal Whig leaders of recent years. They are too taken up with their infighting to run a country and they have replaced efficiency with cult style popularity.

DARb👍🏻

It was actually Justine Greening (Tory) that gave the go-ahead for this, in 2012.

"In January 2012 the Secretary of State for Transport, Justine Greening, announced that HS2 would go ahead. It would comprise a "Y-shaped" network with stations at London, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield and the East Midlands, conveying up to 26,000 people each hour at speeds of up to 400 kilometres per hour (250 mph).[33]

It would be built in two stages. Phase One would be a 225 km (140 mi) route from London to the West Midlands, to be constructed by 2026.[33] Phase Two, from Birmingham to both Leeds and Manchester, would be constructed by 2033; consultation on this phase would begin in early 2014, with a final route chosen by the end of 2014.

Additional tunnelling and other measures to meet local communities' and environmental concerns were also announced.[34] The legislative process would be achieved through two hybrid bills, one for each phase.[35]"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_High_Speed_2

I think but don’t know for sure but more buses are suggested to aid Northern connections/connectivity. Doesn’t seem to be the best option?

MaizieD

Casdon

DaisyAnneReturns

Whitewavemark2

What I would add, is that they did not inherit remotely the absolute dire state that Starmer will inherit.

I am still trying to get my head around the fact that when any party can talk, or even be allowed to talk, to the Treasury, before an election, is in the "gift" of the PM still amazes me.

I really am beginning to think we need a basic codification of our constitution that makes a government have to be more open - or we could have a new law, I suppose.

What exactly do you mean DaisyAnneReturns, surely the opposition, and for that matter the public should fully understand the state of the public purse and the impact of government policy on expenditure?

Isn't DAR saying that parties aren't allowed to talk to the Treasury unless they've been given permission to do so by the PM?

I'd like to know a bit more about this statement. Where hss it come from, DAR?

I thought that may be what she meant, but I wasn’t sure whether permission is in practice refused, if it is a significant issue in terms of information being blocked, or whatever, I haven’t seen anything reported about it. That could easily be my bad though.

Maisie I can't remember where I first read/heard this but it is detailed here:

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/access-talks-civil-service

DaisyAnneReturns

Maisie I can't remember where I first read/heard this but it is detailed here:

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/access-talks-civil-service

Thanks 👍

This gives a rounder view (from the same source. 10 Oct 2019)

Every prime minister since 1964 has authorised these talks, with successive prime ministers recognising how necessary they can be for a new government – while acknowledging that their party will one day be in opposition again.

The talks are essential, as they give the civil service an opportunity to prepare for what can be huge changes in departmental machinery and policy. They consist of a few meetings between shadow secretaries of state and the permanent secretary of the department they shadow, they can be one-to-one or include wider teams and they are restricted in what they can discuss. The talks warn the civil service of likely machinery of government changes or big policy areas that imply big changes. The guiding rule is that permanent secretaries must not provide policy advice.

Some prime ministers have been generous in allowing prolonged access – in the run up to the 2010 election, Gordon Brown allowed nearly 18 months for these contacts. In 2017, because of the snap election, Labour only had the period of the election campaign.

However, prime ministers sometimes hold off authorising the talks because they fear that it implies an election is likely or because they are so helpful to their opponents. Due to the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, the next election is not scheduled until 2022 – but the political realities of a minority government make an early snap election far more likely.

I suppose my worry is that our opposition - and it is ours as much as the government is - doesn't get to understand the progress of things until just before an election. If GB could manage to be open for 18 months ...

The Guardian

Reckons that Sunak has exacerbated the Tory civil war.

He made the HS2 announcement without consulting the cabinet, parliament, councils or British Rail.

Whitewavemark2

The Guardian

Reckons that Sunak has exacerbated the Tory civil war.

He made the HS2 announcement without consulting the cabinet, parliament, councils or British Rail.

Which is odd, because apparently he made a video to announce his decision to scrap HS2 some time before the actual conference.

www.itv.com/news/2023-10-04/pm-filmed-axing-hs2-video-days-before-announcement-despite-denials-at-conference

Who, if anyone, did he consult about his proposals for education?

I don’t think he consulted anyone about anything tbh. It seems he simply constructed a speech around his personal

It was a long hour of Sunak’s ideas.

varian

Who, if anyone, did he consult about his proposals for education?

There is a document in existence which shows that there are preliminary plans.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/a-world-class-education-system-the-advanced-british-standard

(dated 4th October)

Well I'm "chuffed" 🚆 🚉 🚄 because we're getting a new station in Devon, that's if any of the train companies want to use it!!

There have been suggestions about giving equal parity to technical education for years, no government has ever put any money into it, quite the reverse with the tories. It’s all fantasy anyway, you’d think the tories hadn’t been in power for 13 years. We need a change alright but not more of the same.

Apparently there's a planned connection to Victoria station in Sheffield. I'm not sure what its purpose is. The station has only been closed for 50 years and there's no track to it...

HS2 is a total waste of money. Billions of pounds spent, as Cabowich says woodland destroyed and environmental damage, houses demolished, businesses wrecked, and all to save something like 10-20 minutes over the whole journey.

A complete and utter waste of time and money