Hamas has attacked Israel

Galaxy and Iam64. Thank you for understanding. There aren’t many Jews in the world really and it’s frightening. The Holocaust is pretty recent in historical terms.

Anti Semitism is on the increase. I never thought I could feel fearful in the UK but I do and I fear for my sons too.

Fleurpepper

We are not in the Middle Ages
We're not but such groups as Hamas, the Taliban, ISIS, the Morality Police seem to be.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I wonder if the Jews who were killed by Hitler had a choice to be Jewish or not 🤔

Fleurpepper

tickingbird you are wrong on all those points:

'Oh the irony! No WE aren’t in the Middle Ages but large parts of the Muslim world are and as for bordering on racism, check your anti semitism - it’s showing.

Radical Islam is a twisted ideology- fact.

As for choosing to be Jewish - you’re wrong again. I don’t follow any religion but I’m Jewish.'

Apart that radical Islam is twisted ideology. Radical religion always is. Radical Judaism aka Zionism is too.

And you identify as Jewish, despite not being religious, because you choose to. You could choose not to, if you wanted.

Fleurpepper if you are born to a Jewish mother, or into a Jewish family ergo you are Jewish.

Wether or not you choose to be a practicing Jew is your choice when you become an adult, but you are still Jewish.

tickingbird

Galaxy and Iam64. Thank you for understanding. There aren’t many Jews in the world really and it’s frightening. The Holocaust is pretty recent in historical terms.

Anti Semitism is on the increase. I never thought I could feel fearful in the UK but I do and I fear for my sons too.

The UK should be a safe place and I am truly sorry if it is proving not to be so, tickingbird.

The British, our parents and grandparents, fought against Hitler and his Nazis to defeat his horrific ideology.
How have we forgotten that?

The U.K. should be a safe haven for Jewish folks.

Shame on anyone who thinks otherwise 🇮🇱

The Nazis used Germany’s racial laws to identify anyone having 3 or more Jewish grandparents, regardless of their religious identity or practice. Conversions to Christianity were pronounced illegitimate going back two generations, formalizing and instituting Nazi racial theories.

Fleurpepper Yet again you are wrong on all counts. It’s not a choice. Myself and my sons would have to skip a few generations in order not to be gassed. Hamas likely class any drop of Jewish blood going back further such is their blind hatred.

It really isn’t a choice and you would do well to educate yourself instead of making pronouncements on here.

tickingbird I am so sorry you are subjected to this gross ignorance 🌸

tickingbird, not all of us have. Some of us, perhaps older Grans are very much aware of the fight against Hitler and the horrors that the Jews (and others) were subjected to and have no wish to see anti semitism in any shape or form in this country or elsewhere.

One if my friends has learned a relative and a family friend were killed at their kibbutz by Hamas terrorists.
He tells me he’s anxious and ‘it feels like the Holocaust’.

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper

tickingbird you are wrong on all those points:

'Oh the irony! No WE aren’t in the Middle Ages but large parts of the Muslim world are and as for bordering on racism, check your anti semitism - it’s showing.

Radical Islam is a twisted ideology- fact.

As for choosing to be Jewish - you’re wrong again. I don’t follow any religion but I’m Jewish.'

Apart that radical Islam is twisted ideology. Radical religion always is. Radical Judaism aka Zionism is too.

And you identify as Jewish, despite not being religious, because you choose to. You could choose not to, if you wanted.

Fleurpepper if you are born to a Jewish mother, or into a Jewish family ergo you are Jewish.

Wether or not you choose to be a practicing Jew is your choice when you become an adult, but you are still Jewish.

Yes, this is what you are told- but you can, truly, choose not to be.

The same for all Muslims btw.

One of the points being laboured here is that bigots, the Nazis and Hamas etc don’t allow you ‘to choose not to be’ Jewish.

I'm not sure all Muslims can choose to be "lapsed". It's what many Catholics like me did when they reached an age of independent thought, and maybe like me they would put up with quite a bit of sighing and the odd lecture, I just fronted it out till I left home. There's no question of being pressurised by male members of the family, apart from a few lectures and moans from my grandmother, that was it really! In retrospect in spite of being brought up in a fairly strict religion I had to adhere to as a child, I know I had the luxury of being pretty free from teen years on, and it is a luxury compared to what some women have to put up with. In worst case scenarios, honour killings

Fleurpepper, I may be wrong but I think you are confusing race with religion.

If your mother is Jewish you are born into the Jewish race. Should you decide not to follow the religion that’s entirely your choice but you are still Jewish.

Hitler couldn’t have cared less whether or not members of the Jewish race were religious.

Fleurpepper you are wrong.

You really need to do some research from accredited sources.

merlotgran

*Fleurpepper*, I may be wrong but I think you are confusing race with religion.

If your mother is Jewish you are born into the Jewish race. Should you decide not to follow the religion that’s entirely your choice but you are still Jewish.

Hitler couldn’t have cared less whether or not members of the Jewish race were religious.

This 👍

merlotgran you are correct.

To conflate being born of the Jewish race and following Judaism are two separate things.

The way I understand it, you can be ethnically Jewish but non practising. The Jewish line always comes through the mother on the basis, there is no doubt who the mother is, unlike the father!

Seems King Charles has invited the Chief Rabbi to Buckingham Palace.

I’m not quite sure how I feel about the RF getting involved in political statements. They never said how they felt about Brexit!

Mind you France has today banned public demonstrations of support for Palestinians.

Urmstongran

Seems King Charles has invited the Chief Rabbi to Buckingham Palace.

I’m not quite sure how I feel about the RF getting involved in political statements. They never said how they felt about Brexit!

Mind you France has today banned public demonstrations of support for Palestinians.

Oh good for him. He always said he wanted to be ‘Defender of Faiths’ so he’s showing support. Nothing political in it. The only question is will he do the same for Muslims?

I suspect he will.

I'm afraid the pro Palestinian demonstrations come across as very intimidating, so many of them seem to want to taunt and gloat. I can understand France's stance the horror and the brutality of that attack doesn't belong in the 21st century, it's the stuff of barbarians.

Educate yourself, fleurpepper

TerriBull

The way I understand it, you can be ethnically Jewish but non practising. The Jewish line always comes through the mother on the basis, there is no doubt who the mother is, unlike the father!

Yes, I totally and fully understand this. I have read around it at great length- and discussed it with friends born to Jewish mothers. This is what Jews are told and what is generally accepted. The Jews are not a race. And the choice will always remain theirs, and no-one elses. Muslims are told the same- although it comes from male line. And they too have the choice to identify as such, or not- despite the rhetoric and tradition.

Iam64

I am so dreadfully sorry to hear about your friend’s loss. Please convey my sincere condolences.