Hamas has attacked Israel

Excellent post terrible.
I have for a while been of the view that hate crime legislation is utterly pointless. Nothing in the last few days has made me change my mind.

TerriBull rather than terrible

Just a small light in all the darkness, it was reported today that the ten month old twin babies, whose parents were killed in the initial Hamas attack, have been found alive and well in the safe room where their parents had hidden them, and they are now being cared for by members of their family. A terribly sad story, but just a little light in the darkness.

I’m just watching an interview with a member of the Israeli armed forces on television now. He was clearly brought up in England due to his accent. He was not named. He denies that Israel has dropped any bombs on fleeing Palestinians. He states this is false news. Now Tvipi Hotovely is being interviewed. She’s talking about the Israeli mothers who won’t see their children again. There are also Palestinian mothers who won’t see their children again. Numbers reported as 1300 dead Israelis, 2000 dead Palestinians. Much false news, it’s difficult to know exactly what is the situation because we’re not there.

Katie59

If I was a Muslim I would have joined the March supporting my religion, in the same way if I was a Jew I would be supporting Israel, as I’m neither I see both sides of the issue.

The Hamas aim to destroy Israel is not an aim that should be supported by anyone.

There's a lot of Jewish people who condemn the actions of Israel.

There are indeed cadenza. Saw some on tv news last night.

Whitewavemarke2
The Muslim population in any country has always been tolerant of other religion
Not much evidence of that in London yesterday.

Shelmiss, thank you for posting. I hope you and your family are okay

Deliberately targeting civilians, carrying out disproportionate and indiscriminate attacks which kill or injure civilians are war crimes, and I totally condemn the terrorist actions of Hamas.

But Israel are not innocent in this; they have a horrific track record of committing war crimes with impunity in previous wars on Gaza. Almost six decades of hostile military rule over an entire civilian population are in themselves a form of violence, and a recipe for more insecurity for all.

The Israeli complete blockade of Gaza - no electricity, no food, no fuel, and humanitarian corridors closed – is completely unacceptable and contrary to international law. The accompanying bombardment of Gaza is not a conflict of equals but rather a government with one of the most powerful armies in the world inflicting terror on the 2 million people of Gaza – the most densely populated area in the world. Gazans have nowhere to flee. They are a population under siege and undoubtedly many hundreds of people including children have been killed and will continue to be killed. A humanitarian catastrophe has already begun there. More children have been killed in Gaza in the last week than in a year of the Ukraine war. When do you say “enough”?

TerriBull
Hamas we know gives not a jot for any innocent Palestinians caught up in the crossfire.

GG13
Victoria Derbyshire
interviewed a representative of the non-Hamas Palestinians, he wouldn’t condemn their actions, he just condemned Israel

So did the representative of Non-Hamas Palestinians think Israel should just have ignored the actions of Hamas and let them continue on their killing spree unchecked?

I don’t understand the wouldn't condemn their actions except as a means of self preservation, rather than inviting a Hamas on them self,
which in view of Hamas not giving a jot for any innocent Palestinians seems quite likely.

Demonstrations were was reported as peaceful through the day with no trouble apart from a handful of people in a corner of Trafalgar Square in the evening.

humanitarian corridors closed

Are you sure, bmacca? I saw on the news this morning that there is still one evacuation route and the deadline has been extended.

Egypt needs to step up!

Katie59

If I was a Muslim I would have joined the March supporting my religion, in the same way if I was a Jew I would be supporting Israel, as I’m neither I see both sides of the issue.

The Hamas aim to destroy Israel is not an aim that should be supported by anyone.

As a Jew, I am totally horrified in the extreme right-wing fascist government in Israel. No way, under any circumstances would I go any march, etc that supported that.

The original 'socialist' idealogy that was the founding idea of many of the early kibuutz has long since gone. Sadly, Israel has been tken over by the right wing, whose treatement of the palestinians as been officially described by the United Nations as an apartheid system - muslims are very much second even, third class citizens. not totally human!!!!

So the government deliberately built a powder keg, and then appeared surprised when it went off!!!!

So the government deliberately built a powder keg, and then appeared surprised when it went off!!!!

The Arabs in various guises have vowed to destroy Israel ever since the state was formed how do you suggest that Israel deals with terrorists.
Maybe you believe that they should drive the Jews out.

Merlotgran - when a so-called “safe route” was attacked by missiles yesterday? when you have no vehicle or fuel? no food or water? when you have infirm elderly parents and young children? How exactly do you expect Gazans to evacuate?

MerylStreep

Whitewavemarke2
The Muslim population in any country has always been tolerant of other religion
Not much evidence of that in London yesterday.

Even different sects of Islam are intolerant of others hence the sectarian violence and wars.

As with Christianity and many other religions too.

bmacca

Merlotgran - when a so-called “safe route” was attacked by missiles yesterday? when you have no vehicle or fuel? no food or water? when you have infirm elderly parents and young children? How exactly do you expect Gazans to evacuate?

The Israel Government deny shelling the transport carrying Palestinians.

In fact a top NBC foreign correspondent is stating that it was a Hamas car bomb, to deter people from leaving the North.

Hamas have taken over 120 foreign nationals mostly Israelis and the civilians of Gaza and is happy to use them as human shields.

The Israeli Government may be right wing however, they have a duty to protect its citizens and make Israel a safe country to live in.

Hamas started this, on their heads be it.

Franbern

Katie59

If I was a Muslim I would have joined the March supporting my religion, in the same way if I was a Jew I would be supporting Israel, as I’m neither I see both sides of the issue.

The Hamas aim to destroy Israel is not an aim that should be supported by anyone.

As a Jew, I am totally horrified in the extreme right-wing fascist government in Israel. No way, under any circumstances would I go any march, etc that supported that.

The original 'socialist' idealogy that was the founding idea of many of the early kibuutz has long since gone. Sadly, Israel has been tken over by the right wing, whose treatement of the palestinians as been officially described by the United Nations as an apartheid system - muslims are very much second even, third class citizens. not totally human!!!!

So the government deliberately built a powder keg, and then appeared surprised when it went off!!!!

Thank you Franbern. This is what my Jewish friends, many still wtih families in Israel who are terrified of what the actions of Neatanyahu may lead to for them, and the Jews of the world.

Here is an article by a well-known Jewis Israeli author and journalist at the famous Haaretz Newspaper.

''Gideon Levi, Haaretz, 15.10.2023

* We are on the verge of a historic disaster (also for Israel) *
israel is about to go out, or it will be out until these lines see light, for a catastrophic land invasion in the Gaza Strip. This invasion may end in a fiasco like the likes of israel and Gaza have never experienced. She may turn the images from Gaza in the recent days into a trailer; we may face a mass slaughter. Many Israeli soldiers will be killed unnecessarily, Gaza residents will face a second fire, the first signs are already visible in the field.

From this horror no one came out drunk.
Every hour, the pictures from Gaza are becoming more and more horrifying. The recruiting Israeli media betrays its position and prevents them from consuming, it has had enough of the endless greedy generals bush, but the fact that Israel doesn't show Gaza doesn't mean that the catastrophe isn't generated in it. Over a million people were yesterday trying for their lives or suicidal attachment to their destroyed homes, half of them children. Old people, women, disabled, sick and Taf flee south, on foot, on the hoods of cars, on donkeys or on bicycles, just a little of the property with them. People are losing themselves and they know it. There is no man in the giant convoys coming down south that believes he'll have a home to return to. There is no one who doesn't remember the plays of the fire that his ancestors went through 75 years ago.

Gaza resembles Nagorno Karbach yesterday.
Where will the Palestinians of the Gaza strip go? Where are they going to hide? Where will they find a shelter? Maybe at the beach. No electricity, no water, no medicine and no internet.

This evacuation is a mass collective punishment that heralds the next. israel says to clear the northern strip from Hamas, and then move south. Two million people, or whichever of them will remain alive, will then vote to flee back north, to purify the south. The mission will be completed, the IDF will point out the majority of the dead by his own hands and claim that most of them were Hamas people - every girl and boy who dies will be declared Hamas members. According to the Palestinian Ministry of Health, 724 Palestinian children were already killed as of yesterday afternoon, before the continental invasion began. They were not Hamas.
israel will win.

Gaza will be occupied, the tunnels will be purified, human animals will be exterminated, the smell of death that will rise from the Strip will mix with the images of the throats in hunger and dying in the suffocating hospitals, and the world will continue to support Israel. She was brutally attacked and had no choice. The Israeli kidnapped may pay for this in their lives. And then this morning comes the ceasefire in Gaza the destruction - and then what?

Who will rise to power in the strip? Representatives of the Jewish Agency's management? The collaborators of Gaza? And what will you gain from this israel ? And we haven't said a word about a secular war that may also break through and change the game completely.

Israel goes on a dangerous and unlikely operation. She can ask her allies in Washington what the US comparison wars for police change in the world have resulted in. How many millions of people died in vain and who came to power because of America's rules. But you don't need America, and you don't even need to think about the disaster of the Palestinians, to understand that we are on the verge of a historical disaster for Israel.

If the mission is accomplished, and Israel destroys the Gaza Strip on its control and occupation, this will create for generations in the consciousness of the Arab, Muslim and Third World. "Turn off 2" will prevent hundreds of millions of people around the world from receiving israel There may be Arab police that will come first, but their public opinion will not let them come any longer.

The price will be paid by israel and he will be heavier than her now.
Israel is about to go into a catastrophic war, or she has already gone.''

It is a translation from Hebrew so the English may read a bit strange. But it says it all.

The Jewish people of London and other parts of the UK, Europe and USA, etc- are not terrified because of Hamas, but because Netanyahu's inhuman and illegal siege and bombing of civilitians is staining them all and putting them in huge danger. It is not antisemite who are saying this- it is those liberal Israelis, some religious, some not - who are totally opposed to Netanyahu, believe he 'allowed' the attacks from Hamas to happen despite huge intelligence being given to him, and are terrified that HIS actions if putting them all in huge danger- much more than Hamas could ever do.

Franbern Thank you for your post. I wish more people would listen to and read the opinions of Jews, particularly Israeli Jews, who are totally opposed to what has been happening in Israel. There has been appalling treatment of Palestinians living in the West Bank and some extremely provocative behaviour by some settlers which has gone unchecked and largely uncommented on. It's an additional tragedy that the Israelis killed by Hamas were amongst those who wanted a peaceful life living with their Palestinian neighbours, this made them dangerous to Hamas but also problematic to some in the very right wing Israeli govt. What will be left of Gaza when this incursion is finished? Not a lot, I suspect, they are bombing everything to oblivion. I can't help thinking that Hamas and this Israeli govt are much more in accord than they know neither want a world where Israelis and Palestinians can live in peace and that is truly heart breaking.

I love my dc but if they were to have some disagreement with their partner for example, or do something wrong and expect me to be on their side because I am their mum. I could not make excuses fir them, minimise whatever they may have said or done, if they were at fault I would need to say so.
Blind love and rose colour glasses does not solve the problem.

Franbern if I had a hat I would raise it to you. 🎩
I wish peace for all because that is what most ordinary people want, fir themselves and their families, and most people are ordinary.

X post foxie

There will be a lot of bloodshed for sure but it’s far from an equal fight Hamas has only light weapons, Israel has effectively an unlimited supply of heavy weapons and air power as well.

They are capable of leveling the whole of Gaza if needed, they would rather not do that but if Hamas are determined to fight to the last man that’s what will happen.

It is the innocent on both sides who will suffer and are suffering.

Maybe some should read the Headline on this thread,
HAMAS has bombed Israel ...not GAZA ,not Palestinians certainly not babies in incubators or people trying to get on with their lives which are difficult enough in the circumstances ISRAEL has placed them .
Anyone who believes Israel with its huge arsenal is right to bomb these civilians in retaliation needs a wee head wobble .Israel IS a terrorist state and has been for decades,If only the governments hadn't started their continuing landgrabs and repeated abhorrent treatment of the Palestinian people none of this would be happening .Respect has to be earned and the Israeli government has done nothing to earn it.
There will be people who say I'm anti semitic but thats not true ,I'm anti Israel government policies as are most clear headed folk .Ethnic cleansing is not something we want to see happen to the Palestinians ,just as we didn't want it for the Jews in WW11 .
The UN needs to intervene NOW!!

Yes it always is the innocent. Those who create world problems ensure they live protected in safe places with with no fear they or theirs will suffer.