Starmer's speech

Sorry that was a general 'you' not aimed at you casdon

growstuff

fancythat

We’ve seen no evidence that councils implementing the 15 minute cities concept are attempting to place restrictions on how often residents can go to the shops.

The word that comes to mind is...yet.

They would hardly tell people that at the beginning would they?!

Not that I necessarily think going to the shops would be restricted. At least not for a few years.

For goodness' sake! Do you see conspiracies round every corner?

For those that believe Western governments are all conspiring to control us, and that the pandemic lockdowns were simply a 'trial run' with vaccines designed to insert a micro-chip for good measure... there is definitely a conspiracy going on!.

As for 15-minute cities - if you think back to childhood you might remember that things like doctor's surgeries, dentists, butchers, bakers, grocery shops, hardware stores, libraries, community centres were in fact part of your local environment. This is not a new concept!

Shops and amenities disappeared because of privatisation and spending cuts. Then, in the 80s, people had to 'get on their bikes' to look for work (so to speak) and communities gradually dissolved.

The easiest way to control the population is to divide it into factions and let it fight among itself to prevent any alliance that could challenge the status quo. It goes back centuries. We are already being controlled! But subtly.

Some of the recent posts on this thread are starting to make my head spin.
I will come back to them later.

But shopping has changed dramatically since then Dickens. I havent been in a butchers in 20 years. And certainly in cities bakers generally now equals Greggs and they are plentiful. Personally I dont think most town planning has yet come to grips with peoples changing habits.

Depends where you live, Galaxy. We live in what is really a 15-minute town with bakers, butchers, quite a lot of other shops including a midrange Tesco, a library, Health Centre, schools, swimming pool & gym, churches all within 15 minutes of anywhere in the town. We have family in part of Glasgow (not the posh bits!) where they have the same things, although the supermarkets are bigger.

Well yes I live in a village with all those things but people mainly do their shopping in supermarkets and online.

I havent been in a butchers in 20 years

I can't, in all honesty, say that I have never bought supermarket meat, but I can say that I have bought meat from local butchers' shops for all my adult life. I currently have three to chose from, two practically next door to each other and one about 3 miles away. They seem to be thriving despite a plethora of supermarkets, Aldi and Lidl in the same small town and the whole range, Aldi, Lidl, Morrisons, Sainsburys, Tesco, Asda and M & S in the larger town a few miles away. (No Waitrose, they couldn't even make it in middle class Durham City). I'm not sure that, given the choice, people's shopping habits have changed that radically.

If the shops are there, people will use them.

I think its generational as well. I think younger people obviously use internet shopping in a different way etc. The baker in my village has just closed and the butcher has reinvented itself as a delicatessen to capture lunch market. I am not against local facilities as I have said, I am just wary of solutions that might not necessarily be of help the people that they are targeting.

If the shops are there, some people will use them.

It’s true, some people will, but which people?
The people on the way home from work?
The people who get their stuff delivered because they have walking difficulties or can no longer drive?
The butcher’s nearest us (7 mins by car) until 2019, which was very popular and had good meat, is now a men’s hairdresser.
The fruit and veg shop close to it branched out into sandwiches as well to please the local uni students. It’s no longer there, but is now a nail and beauty salon.
So who?

Galaxy

But shopping has changed dramatically since then Dickens. I havent been in a butchers in 20 years. And certainly in cities bakers generally now equals Greggs and they are plentiful. Personally I dont think most town planning has yet come to grips with peoples changing habits.

Yes, our shopping habits have changed.

I'm just pointing out that having shops conveniently 'local' is not a new concept!

It's not just about shops though is it - perhaps people would like to see some amenities and services a little closer to hand.

Of course, one size doesn't fit all.

Our small town had, until recently, two butchers - such is the demand, and the baker is very busy still. But other towns will be quite different.

Age and income to some extent dictates shopping habits so a town with a concentration of young families will differ from one with a mixed age-group, etc.

In our town, for example, there are a lot of very old houses - mine's Grade2Listed, and people are moving in and out of them so there's always refurbishment going on. That brings in lots of tradespeople.. they buy from the local hardware store and 'lunch' from the bakers.

The homeowners tend to be 40-50 age group, middle to high income earners and certainly use the local shops... deli / eatery, butchers (always a queue), flower shop (a mini garden-centre), hardware store (often crowded), antiques shops, three pubs, gift shop (where you can order any book), two dentists, an optician, solicitor, pharmacy, newsagent (busy from morning to closing), fish and chip shop, Chinese take-away... and two small convenience stores, Morrisons and Co-op.

And yet, judging by the number of courier vans always parked up and down the street, these people (including me) also shop online.

Habits are changing, but it's still something of a mixed bag at the moment.

Here’s a positive about “local” shops. Our town, which is between 10 and 40 minutes from us, depending on the traffic, has a bakers that always has a queue outside it. The bread is good but it’s on a main road, so involves a parking fee on top of the cost of the bread, (on my only visit, I paid £3 for a sourdough olive loaf) unless you live closer to town.

Whether I agree or disagree talking about bakers and sourdough is much more comfortable than the other discussions on this site.
I did buy a Gregg's coffee today. And went to a local optician

Whether I agree or disagree talking about bakers and sourdough is much more comfortable than the other discussions on this site.

😀

Greggs do very good sausage rolls...

MaizieD

^Whether I agree or disagree talking about bakers and sourdough is much more comfortable than the other discussions on this site.^

😀

Greggs do very good sausage rolls...

And you can buy them frozen from Iceland. At one time, Greggs sausage roll, green beans or celery was all my grandson with ASC would eat, so that was useful.

My vegetarian son rates their vegan sausage rolls highly.

Curtaintwitcher

While watching it, I was reminded of the rallies by Adolf Hitler.....with the mindless fools cheering every word, as though someone was holding up a board saying 'cheer'.

Who are the 'mindless fools' you refer to, Curtaintwitcher?

Don't you think that's an offensive way of referring to people who simply have a different political perspective from yours?

I have friends of all political persuasions, and I like to think that this is because I am neither mindless nor a fool. Someone who thinks that there is only one way to look at life is surely the epitome of both mindlessness and folly.

Didnt know you felt so strongly about Greggs Doodle

Oh, how did that happen? . Do you know, that's happened to me a lot lately - either posts go in the wrong threads or out of synch somehow. I have few strong feelings about Greggs, other than that their Marketing is very clever and inventive - just for the record, that is 😂.

🤔

Callistemon21

🤔

Indeed, Callistemon. Indeed.