Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

foxie48

Katie59

nanna8

They are arguing about who bombed the hospital. Isaraelis or Palestinians. How low can you get to do a thing like that, whoever is responsible ? They should be deeply ashamed.

If there is evidence that it was a Palestinian rocket that caused the damage the world needs to know, although it probably won’t convince the Arab world

It may seem "nit picking" but Israel is at war with Hamas and other terrorists operating out of Gaza, not Palestine. As far as I am aware there has been no declaration of war by Israel that includes the West Bank or that it is in a war with the Palestinian people in Gaza. I think it's an important distinction.

No, not nit-pickking, it is an important point.
There is a distinction.

not for those families being bombed into oblivion, with nowhere to go, and no means to get there either.

tickingbird

growstuff

How dare you accuse me of appearing to justify the butchery by Hamas!! angry

I have done nothing of the sort.

Apologies. My comment was to Glorianny but I mistakenly typed your name.

Please indicate where I have "justified the butchery by Hamas"
This concept that if you point out other deaths and mass killings and the inequalities which have led to the present situation you are somehow justifying one aspect of the slaughter is precisely why peace processes fail. Any examination of the problem and attempt to reach a solution requires that you look at both sides of the question and the events involved.

It’s not exactly a “war” is it, you declare war against another nation, Palestine is part of Israel, whatever some other, opinions say.

Katie59

It’s not exactly a “war” is it, you declare war against another nation, Palestine is part of Israel, whatever some other, opinions say.

In that case it is the slaughter by one country of one section of its citizens. Isn't there a name for that? Oh yes-ethnic cleansing.

Glorianny
Of course it is up to the individual but many Jews will tell you that the far right extremist parties which represent sections of Judaism which are extreme and not representative of most Jewish people are favoured and beginning to dominate in Israel. They do not want Arabs in the country, they do not approve of Christians, they operate "Family friendly" policies which basically means they are against gay freedoms. They are a scary bunch and they have gained ground this year. Perhaps that s why Hamas acted

That’s where you excused their massacre.

As I said before the policies within Israel are nothing to do with Hamas.

By your reasoning it’s understandable if one government sends a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists into another country to slaughter and torture over 1300 innocent civilians because they don’t approve of their policies.

GrannyGravy13 suggested that I put this link here to show how helpless the police seemed when I large group of pro Gazaand Hamas supporters help a very ferocious March in London at the weekend. They also drove a large van through Golders Green a popular Jewish area shouting threats at Jews. Windows were broken and there is a general feeling of fear among local Jewish people.

twitter.com/Emily8275/status/1712435095733514657/video/1

Thank you Anniel

There was in interview with a Palestinian ambassador on TRIP. He said that the Jews are victims of the Nazis and the Palestinians are victims of the victims. Is everyone forgetting that the Palestinians didn’t start all of this? And that WWII was a result of the way that Germany was punished for WWI? Is history always going to repeat itself. What did knee jerk reactions which resulted in Iraq, Afghanistan even Vietnam achieve? Hamas wanted this reaction from Israel. The whole world would have been supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas but that support is now being tempered by the way Israel are treating the Palestinians. Which, before anyone accuses me of all sort of things, does not mean that I condone what Hamas did (although I will, no doubt, be accused of that). But for all the discussion about who blew the hospital up, how many people died; does it matter if it’s one person, one hundred or several hundred…it could have been avoided. The west have been carving up the Middle East for the past century and yet the situation has never been resolved.

Israel says it will allow limited aid to enter Gaza from Egypt

Israel will allow Egypt to deliver limited quantities of humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip, the office of the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has said.

The decision was approved in light of a request from the visiting US president, Joe Biden, a statement said.

At least a little improvement in the situation.
From the Guardian
In light of President (Joseph) Biden’s demand, Israel will not thwart humanitarian supplies from Egypt as long as it is only food, water and medicine for the civilian population in the souther Gaza Strip.

The statement made no mention of badly needed fuel. It is not clear when the aid will start flowing.

Anniel that clip is beyond my comprehension. It is nauseating in the extreme. This country deserves so much better on many fronts. Why are these extremists here in the first place? The police don’t seem equipped to deal with this situation at all. A complete breakdown in British values?

Ps Anniel this has to be a clear example of hate speech? It has to stop immediately.

I totally agree ronib

Anniel this is appalling why are they allowed to get away with this inflammatory speech why are they all not arrested immediately

Do you think the police have not received the directive from the Prime Minister to protect Jewish families in the Uk? Why would that be?

Police numbers in the Uk have been fairly similar for the last 10 years or more, even though the population has increased by several million.
Jail space has remained static? - forgot to look that up to make sure.

The British army numbers were 150,000 in year 2000.
They were 100,000 in year 2020.

ronib

Do you think the police have not received the directive from the Prime Minister to protect Jewish families in the Uk? Why would that be?

Could you clarify your question please ronib.

So fewer police numbers mean the average police officer doesn’t know how to do his job? Fancy that.
Police were on duty and did nothing to prevent hate crime. They are therefore complicit? Or what is the excuse? Maybe an abject apology is due to the good people of Golders Green?

I am64 yes of course - I caught a glimpse of Rishi Sunak in the Commons promising to protect the Jewish community living in the Uk. I know I did not imagine it. What kind of chain of command operates when the police on the ground have not been informed of the need to prevent hate crime and of the Prime Minister’s response to this situation?

I also thought I saw the Home Secretary visit Golders Green (last week?) to assure the Jewish community she had given the police the authority to act if they came across any violence or hate crimes directed at Jews.
The police have no excuse not to protect the Jewish people in the area.

I thought hate speech was a crime in this country.
March and protest yes, but hate speech like that on the link no.

A more balanced view of the march and police actions. The police did intervene and they enacted a rule that face masks had to be removed. www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v6eZM2FYKU
There is also film of police intervening
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v6eZM2FYKU

Depends if you think shouting death to Jews is acceptable Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Depends if you think shouting death to Jews is acceptable Glorianny

Of course it isn't acceptable but there are always people who will shout and say unacceptable things. I can't count the times I have seen members of the EDF shouting and making negative speeches about immigrants in a city centre, as the police watch.
The point is that the march was not about those people. The majority of the people were peaceful and the march was policed.
It is precisely this sort oof misinformation which encourages hatred, and prevents negotiation. Possibly that is its aim.

Glorianny it is not misinformation though is it?

The first clip is taken from a member of the public, the second by a professional news film crew.

I am sorry but there are Jews in London to fearful to send their children to school. There is a reasonably sized Hazadic Jewish community a couple of miles from here and they are not leaving their homes.

But hey ho according to you it’s all misinformation