Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

When I lived in East London a few years back, I used to tutor some Jewish girls in the evening who attended a Jewish school the other side of London. It used to take them an hour or more to get home, and occasionally there would be traffic hold ups. I remember their mum getting really worried if they were late arriving, (probably all kind of fears), and frantic texts being sent. I shudder to think how they would all be feeling now.

The army needs to patrol Jewish areas - masks and flags are disallowed but hate speech is not. The police have failed us all. We are a very diminished country.
And my blood pressure…..

ronib

The army needs to patrol Jewish areas - masks and flags are disallowed but hate speech is not. The police have failed us all. We are a very diminished country.
And my blood pressure…..

I do not want to see the army on the streets of U.K.
I would however like to see the police do their job regarding hate speech.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Depends if you think shouting death to Jews is acceptable Glorianny

Of course it isn't acceptable but there are always people who will shout and say unacceptable things. I can't count the times I have seen members of the EDF shouting and making negative speeches about immigrants in a city centre, as the police watch.
The point is that the march was not about those people. The majority of the people were peaceful and the march was policed.
It is precisely this sort oof misinformation which encourages hatred, and prevents negotiation. Possibly that is its aim.

A few years ago I asked a policeman why there was a march in town.He told me it was the EDF. And then said ‘but they’re twenty years too late’. I was so shocked I didn’t make a note of his number.

MayBee70 two wrongs do not make a right.

I am just as appalled by the EDF marches.

GG13 I have no faith in the ability of the police force to provide adequate protection to the Jewish community.
Did you know that for many years, even 90 year olds have been asked to join a rota to patrol the entrances to synagogues? No church, mosque or temple feels so threatened. In fact I am astonished at the longstanding security in place at the local synagogue just 3 miles from where I live. I used to think it was very unnecessary but now sadly not. I imagine the 90 year olds have been let off this time.

The police keep the peace by consent. I dread to think what kind of riot could have occurred if the few officers on duty had arrested members of that protest for hate speech.

Yes I know about the protection Jewish communities have provided their schools and synagogues. Anti semitism has been ever present but growing steadily in recent years.

tickingbird

Glorianny
Of course it is up to the individual but many Jews will tell you that the far right extremist parties which represent sections of Judaism which are extreme and not representative of most Jewish people are favoured and beginning to dominate in Israel. They do not want Arabs in the country, they do not approve of Christians, they operate "Family friendly" policies which basically means they are against gay freedoms. They are a scary bunch and they have gained ground this year. Perhaps that s why Hamas acted

That’s where you excused their massacre.

As I said before the policies within Israel are nothing to do with Hamas.

By your reasoning it’s understandable if one government sends a bunch of bloodthirsty terrorists into another country to slaughter and torture over 1300 innocent civilians because they don’t approve of their policies.

Trying to understand why something happened is not excusing it. Looking at the causes of any conflict is essential in order to move on.
If Palestinians are going to be mistreated and suppressed of course it is to do with Hamas.

My reasoning says you will not prevent terrorism or attacks by clamping down and causing more discrimination. Oppressed people will rebel and more oppression will produce more terrorists. Where do you think Hamas recruit from?

By consent or by inaction? Iam64. Illegally too if hate crime is facilitated by inaction?

Glorianny what do you suggest Israel and the rest of the free world does with regards to Hamas and similar terrorist organisations?

What do you suggest the police in the situation on the twitter link should do? I’m not supporting inaction, I’m acknowledging the impossible situation they were in.

No doubt senior officers will be reviewing how best to police volatile, angry protesters motivated by anti semitism as well as support for Palestine

I have lived in NW London since 1984. Our block had a lot of Jewish residents. They were all lovely, warm hearted people. They thought we were Jewish as our surname ends in “man” we had a Jewish prayer sign on our front door left by the family we bought from. I have fond memories as many of the. Have died. I feel really upset by the hatred shown to Jewish people during the marches and demonstrations. The Police cannot be seeen as racist or biased and we have never experienced the level of hatred displayed by the leaders of the marches. Many young people join such marches without much idea of what has happened in the past. For me it has dwelt on my mind as I was a school child during WW2 and our schools showed us films about what happened in the concentration camps. I visited so in later life I visited such camps in Poland and Germany. Now we have these scenes in London and it is frightening.

Iam64

What do you suggest the police in the situation on the twitter link should do? I’m not supporting inaction, I’m acknowledging the impossible situation they were in.

No doubt senior officers will be reviewing how best to police volatile, angry protesters motivated by anti semitism as well as support for Palestine

I think they need to use the new laws which prevent noisy and/or violent protests, no point making new laws and not enacting them.

There are hate speech laws in the U.K. they should be able to identify those suspected of it by CCTV cameras and bring them to court.

Gg13 - yes I probably should have suggested the use of cctv/twitter to prosecute the offenders. I’m not suggesting leave them alone to commit hate crimes and threaten to kill Jews. My point was more about the management of that by a relatively small number of officers. No dogs, horses or tactical support. An officer could have been killed a full riot started. They need to be better prepared

Totally agree that they should be better prepared, it’s not as if these matches were not expected.

maddyone

I thought hate speech was a crime in this country.
March and protest yes, but hate speech like that on the link no.

It is, but it all depends who the hate speech is directed against 🤫

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny what do you suggest Israel and the rest of the free world does with regards to Hamas and similar terrorist organisations?

Israel needs to abide by a few of the UN resolutions it has so far ignored. It needs to appeal to the average reasonable Palestinian. Hamas is not some strange amorphous body, it recruits from the radicalised who have lost family and homes.
All history shows three things are essential
An open dialogue with all parties able to state their views
A block on funding (this would need negotiation with the Arab states)
An agreement by all parties that they will be open to moving their opinions and making adjustments.
It won't happen of course. It will probably take hundreds of years. The Israelis may well think they have suppressed Palestinians and then there will be a new surge in terrorist activities. Similar to the UK and Ireland.

Every wealthy Jew who donates to the Tory party should withhold their money. Every Jew who is a member of the party should leave.

Glorianny so no action against Hamas?

If Hamas were to free the hostages it would be a start for negotiations.

it needs to appeal to the average reasonable Palestinian
That one sentence illustrates just how little you understand.
There’s more chance of the average Palestinian eating a pork dinner than believing what Israel would say to them.

Unfortunately MerylStreep I think you are correct

MerylStreep,

I do not like the tenor of your post. Why should wealthy Jews do what they like with their money just like every other citizen, Your post is directed at “wealthy Jews” and I do not understand why. I presume you vote for Labour and would remind you that Sir Keir Starmer spoke even more strongly than the PM in Parliament today. What about wealthy Muslims and their vote?

Just spoken to someone living in Germany who said that the moment any protest crowd erupted into hate speech, the march would be cancelled and arrests would be made.
Seems we have much to learn.

Anniel
Unfortunately you have interpreted my post in the wrong way.
The Tory party have failed to protect the jewish community, or did i misunderstand the video you put up.
I’m a great believer in hit them where it hurts That’s in the Tory party coffers.
I posted my opinions after talking to two wealthy Jewish acquaintances today who told me they would not be supporting the the Tory financially anymore.

Explains the police reaction?

www.lbc.co.uk/news/police-clamp-down-hamas-related-clothing-anti-jewish-chanting/