Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

Amnesty International’s take on this whole situation is very different - no mention of the impact of Hamas and blaming Israel for land grabs over the past 50 years. Where does this all end?

Fleurpepper it’s not me that’s being naive on this thread.

You seem unable to comprehend that Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation.

They live amongst the Palestinian people, they are now using them along with the hostages as human shields.

Peace will not be achieved until Hamas is eliminated and Palestinians feel safe in their own homes.

Israel will hopefully negotiate with an elected head of Palestine who has no previous link to Hamas.

Their land was taken by dreadful force in 1948- but if the Jewish state of Israel had kept to this territory, it could have worked. But no, the ILLEGAL expansion went on and on, and on some more- for the past 75 years. The violence and cruelty was unbelievable and everything bit of land and dignitiy torched. How do you get peace here?.

The illegal expansion was in the West Bank not Gaza, however Israel and Egypt did demolish houses in Gaza to widen the security zone at the border in response to continual Palestinian attacks.

Vintagewhine

The way to defeat extremist terrorist groups is to suck the oxygen out of what fuels them.ie poverty, oppression and no hope for a better future. As others have said Israel may want to exterminate Hamas and they might succeed in the short term but in the long term I believe they are creating a breeding ground for yet more terrorism.

Yes

I really think that in order to proceed with any kind of peace initiative, it is vital that the international community does not lay the blame on one side - a pointless exercise - supports both communities of civilians of whatever faith, and gives all its energies into providing security and prosperity to both Israelis and Palestinians . In a weird sort of way Israeli security is totally tied to Palestinian security.

You can’t have one without the other.

A cease fire and breathing space would be good.

Katie59

Their land was taken by dreadful force in 1948- but if the Jewish state of Israel had kept to this territory, it could have worked. But no, the ILLEGAL expansion went on and on, and on some more- for the past 75 years. The violence and cruelty was unbelievable and everything bit of land and dignitiy torched. How do you get peace here?.

The illegal expansion was in the West Bank not Gaza, however Israel and Egypt did demolish houses in Gaza to widen the security zone at the border in response to continual Palestinian attacks.

There was illegal land grabbing in Gaza, but the USA forced (2005/7?) Israel to withdraw.

Whitewavemark2

Vintagewhine

The way to defeat extremist terrorist groups is to suck the oxygen out of what fuels them.ie poverty, oppression and no hope for a better future. As others have said Israel may want to exterminate Hamas and they might succeed in the short term but in the long term I believe they are creating a breeding ground for yet more terrorism.

Yes

I really think that in order to proceed with any kind of peace initiative, it is vital that the international community does not lay the blame on one side - a pointless exercise - supports both communities of civilians of whatever faith, and gives all its energies into providing security and prosperity to both Israelis and Palestinians . In a weird sort of way Israeli security is totally tied to Palestinian security.

You can’t have one without the other.

A cease fire and breathing space would be good.

Actually, No!
A western liberalism sort of attitude doesn’t work with terrorist religious fundamentalists such as hamas.
It wouldn’t matter how much money or food or security they had, they would forge ahead with what they see as their holy mission.
What maddyone says is correct, hamas has to be defeated in Gaza and then and only then can something more peaceful be worked out with the Palestinian people for the future.
Hamas has brought this down on their heads, some of the people there do support them and always did, others not so much, the only true innocents are the children of course.
I hope Israel will be as careful as it possibly can to minimise Palestinian deaths, something hamas wouldn’t even think of doing if the roles were reversed.
I can see see Israel has to do all it can to get rid of hamas , or at least make them a spent force.

Totally agree Oreo

Hamas are unwilling to negotiate, it was reported on SKY they refused to cooperate with a cease fire yesterday.

"I can see see Israel has to do all it can to get rid of hamas , or at least make them a spent force."

The point is that by doing this in the way that Israel is ATM, it is creating a situation where more people will join terror groups. What future do the Palestinian children in Gaza have? Gaza is being destroyed, they cannot leave so what future do they have? Look at what happens to some children in the deprived areas of our cities, they get drawn into criminal behaviour. Compare our cities to what Gaza will be like after this incursion, so much worse than anything we can imagine. Members of terror groups get fed and clothed, given a purpose, made to feel valued and for radical Muslims, a place in heaven if they die fighting. These children will flock into terrorism unless they are given something better. This is how terror groups recruit, I am certainly not naive, I'm a realist!

I think that you are incorrect.

Yes defeat hamas just as Isis was defeated but they haven’t gone. Look at Belgium just yesterday.

Until you win hearts and minds and this will never be achieved with violence, denying people their rights and suppression, you will continue to breed violent extremism.

My post was to gg13 etc.

foxie48

"I can see see Israel has to do all it can to get rid of hamas , or at least make them a spent force."

The point is that by doing this in the way that Israel is ATM, it is creating a situation where more people will join terror groups. What future do the Palestinian children in Gaza have? Gaza is being destroyed, they cannot leave so what future do they have? Look at what happens to some children in the deprived areas of our cities, they get drawn into criminal behaviour. Compare our cities to what Gaza will be like after this incursion, so much worse than anything we can imagine. Members of terror groups get fed and clothed, given a purpose, made to feel valued and for radical Muslims, a place in heaven if they die fighting. These children will flock into terrorism unless they are given something better. This is how terror groups recruit, I am certainly not naive, I'm a realist!

What do you suggest Israel does?

1,400 Israelis were murdered by Hamas on 7/10, should they just let it go and wait for the next attack which will definitely happen if Hamas think they can get away with it once more

You can only win the hearts and minds of reasonable people.
Hamas and Hezbollah and Isis and the Taliban are not reasonable people.

Well I’m certainly not saying that.

But I am calling for restraint.

Oreo

You can only win the hearts and minds of reasonable people.
Hamas and Hezbollah and Isis and the Taliban are not reasonable people.

No one is saying that. Of course they are not reasonable. But you can’t extrapolate that statement and suggest that the Arab peoples are not reasonable.

Just as I think that the Jewish people are reasonable and are not represented by Netanyahu and his far right ideology.

I am talking about the hearts and minds of the ordinary person. The one desperately trying to live an ordinary life without the horror, on both sides of the divide.

Let's not imagine that religious fundamentalism is the sole preserve of Muslims, there are far right Jewish organisations which consider any involvement with Arabs, or Christians an offence. They have had terrorist organisations which have been banned by the US and whose ex-members are active in Israel.

Joe Biden is flying into Israel tomorrow, makes me think that Israel will not start their ground offensive before then.

There is no way that POTUS would be flying in if there was a risk to his life.

Whitewavemark2 unfortunately the ordinary people have no sway apart from at elections. Gaza hasn’t had elections since 2007 I think, at least Israel has regular elections.

The Strait of Hormuz controlled in part by Iran was referred to in Gb news-
yet another possible opportunity to inflict very high oil prices and further instability for the West? There’s a lot of jiggery pokery going on and until countries have energy independence, it’s likely to continue. So yet another variable to consider.

GrannyGravy13

Fleurpepper it’s not me that’s being naive on this thread.

You seem unable to comprehend that Hamas is a proscribed terrorist organisation.

They live amongst the Palestinian people, they are now using them along with the hostages as human shields.

Peace will not be achieved until Hamas is eliminated and Palestinians feel safe in their own homes.

Israel will hopefully negotiate with an elected head of Palestine who has no previous link to Hamas.

I am 100% and fully aware, thank you.

see Foxie48's post above, and Wwm2's.

Fleurpepper what do you think Israel should do regarding Hamas?

All you do is post what according to you they shouldn’t be doing.

GrannyGravy13

Totally agree Oreo

Hamas are unwilling to negotiate, it was reported on SKY they refused to cooperate with a cease fire yesterday.

negotiate what? What sort of solution do you propose to be negotiated? A withdrawal of all illegal Israeli settlements and expansion? Now THAT could work.

Won't happen however, will it?

Fleurpepper

GrannyGravy13

Totally agree Oreo

Hamas are unwilling to negotiate, it was reported on SKY they refused to cooperate with a cease fire yesterday.

negotiate what? What sort of solution do you propose to be negotiated? A withdrawal of all illegal Israeli settlements and expansion? Now THAT could work.

Won't happen however, will it?

No a cease fire was trying to be negotiated, Hamas declined.

If Israel completely withdraws, what will Hamas have learned?
They will have learned that if they plan and execute a barbaric attack and eliminate all the people in a village, all 1400 people, then they will get their way. Whatever that maybe. However since it is the avowed intent of Hamas and other Muslim groups to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and to eliminate every Jew on the earth, it will not be enough.

maddyone

If Israel completely withdraws, what will Hamas have learned?
They will have learned that if they plan and execute a barbaric attack and eliminate all the people in a village, all 1400 people, then they will get their way. Whatever that maybe. However since it is the avowed intent of Hamas and other Muslim groups to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and to eliminate every Jew on the earth, it will not be enough.

Exactly

As I said up thread, Hamas don’t want peace , they want war.
Till every Israeli is dead.

I think the horror of it all is difficult for us to actually understand. We live in our cosy homes, in villages and little towns in the UK. Some of us live in cities. We are safe. We are not in danger. It’s easy to pontificate and provide solutions from the sofa.
We have to imagine that it was our grandchildren in that village, or being evacuated from their homes. Then think how we would feel. My Jewish friend put on Facebook a picture comprised of some of the Jewish children who have been taken as hostages. Some as young as six months old. Imagine the terror of the children and their parents. If that’s not a war crime, I don’t know what is.