Israel, Hamas and now Hezbollah

It was apparently a war crime when Russia took Ukrainian children as hostages.

This may help some who don’t seem able to distinguish the war crimes committed by Israel

www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2023/10/15/list-of-war-crimes-and-crimes-qualifying-as-genocide-committed-by-israel-in-gaza-since-7th-october-2023/?fbclid=IwAR36IAgarALDyznCgWuVDTptwFJ7zW2_26Ik0l5XFRlERKrFga-NdJ86v1k_aem_AYDsPFwdNoh7Xj1CDFb6qg67NyD5zBdWBeqePw806stQx4zUGwmistBtZNOKiktT8lo

maddyone

I think the horror of it all is difficult for us to actually understand. We live in our cosy homes, in villages and little towns in the UK. Some of us live in cities. We are safe. We are not in danger. It’s easy to pontificate and provide solutions from the sofa.
We have to imagine that it was our grandchildren in that village, or being evacuated from their homes. Then think how we would feel. My Jewish friend put on Facebook a picture comprised of some of the Jewish children who have been taken as hostages. Some as young as six months old. Imagine the terror of the children and their parents. If that’s not a war crime, I don’t know what is.

Who is disagreeing?

Whitewavemark2

maddyone

I think the horror of it all is difficult for us to actually understand. We live in our cosy homes, in villages and little towns in the UK. Some of us live in cities. We are safe. We are not in danger. It’s easy to pontificate and provide solutions from the sofa.
We have to imagine that it was our grandchildren in that village, or being evacuated from their homes. Then think how we would feel. My Jewish friend put on Facebook a picture comprised of some of the Jewish children who have been taken as hostages. Some as young as six months old. Imagine the terror of the children and their parents. If that’s not a war crime, I don’t know what is.

Who is disagreeing?

No-one, not a single one.

In the meantime, the crazies are on many sides, and the innocent keep dying

''*An Illinois man was charged with stabbing a 6-year-old Muslim boy to death and seriously injuring his mother in what police said was a hate crime linked to the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas in the Middle East.*

Joseph Czuba allegedly stabbed the boy 26 times with a "military-style knife" and his mother more than a dozen in the incident, which President Joe Biden said "shocked and sickened" him.

"The child's Palestinian Muslim family came to America seeking what we all seek—a refuge to live, learn, and pray in peace. This horrific act of hate has no place in America, and stands against our fundamental values: freedom from fear for how we pray, what we believe, and who we are," his statement continued.''

On the other Forum where I am active, full of wealthy expats- some are advocating the shooting of all Palestinians in Gaza- guilty or not, Hamas or not- just for being Palestinian- and their post is allowed to stand.

Whitewavemark2

maddyone

I think the horror of it all is difficult for us to actually understand. We live in our cosy homes, in villages and little towns in the UK. Some of us live in cities. We are safe. We are not in danger. It’s easy to pontificate and provide solutions from the sofa.
We have to imagine that it was our grandchildren in that village, or being evacuated from their homes. Then think how we would feel. My Jewish friend put on Facebook a picture comprised of some of the Jewish children who have been taken as hostages. Some as young as six months old. Imagine the terror of the children and their parents. If that’s not a war crime, I don’t know what is.

Who is disagreeing?

One or two on the thread.

Who? I haven’t read a single post that supports war crimes which includes the Hamas action.

It would be a good idea to quote the offending post.

Not a single one.

My friend from Israel has given me permission to share this post. Again, a translation from Hebrew.

''Kipah Halim is a good and dear friend, a political activist, an Israeli Palestinian, who accompanied me in the production of "Children" movies. And this is what she has to say:
How is A. Halim
An open letter to the people of Israel.
I feel privileged by my ability to sit on the computer and write this letter. Actually I slept in bed last night and had a good and nutritious breakfast in the morning. The fact is that I can still walk on the street without fear that a plane will bomb my neighborhood and my world will be destroyed in an instant. The fact that my family is a short, whole and healthy drive away and doesn't lack anything, gentle.
The way it's so hard for me to hear the conversation of hate and fury in the media and networks, I see and feel the pain you feel, and I'm not alone. This probably won't be told to you in the media, but the Arabs in Israel did not protest this time and did not go out to the streets even after Israel imitated entire neighborhoods in the strip and killed more than 2000 people, a woman and a child, and despite all the unprecedented horror sights that do not stop coming from Gaza.
Most Palestinians in Israel understand that killing the citizens in the south was abhorrent and wrong, and no one needs to explain it to them or convince them. No religion and no international laws needed - the muscular killing in the South was neither moral nor inhumane. Period. Whoever opposes for years harming Palestinian citizens cannot come and kill Israeli citizens so that the other side will hurt too, so that he can stand in his place for a moment. In the same way, those who are shocked by the murder of families in the south cannot warn the murder of entire families in Gaza (more than 50 families so far and the number is rising) that some of whom can no longer be rescued from the ruins. You didn’t do it justice. To no law, to no logic and to no scale.
More than 700 children were killed in a week of days in Gaza, in bombings, in the darkness, in panic, without warning and without injustice in their hands. There are bodies of babies that need to be glued before they are buried, bodies that pile up with no time and place to bury them, doctors and paramedics who collapse from the horrors they see and witnesses who lived to tell with empty and terrified eyes. THE FEAR OF THE LORD. So true it's scary to hear a siren and then boom but it's also a kind of privilege. Because there is no alarm, there is no shelter and nowhere to run.
People here have gotten so used to not seeing the humans on the other side. But most of those who are killed these days are citizens who have nothing to do with the operation in the South or Hamas. Simple people, flesh and blood. Each of them has a name and a story - and the stories are creepy. The dimensions of destruction and death are inconceivable. And I wonder, how will you explain this destruction to future generations? What will you tell them when they ask you how you supported it? Why didn't you stop the evil? Are you murdering the children? Even after a few generations, the Germans fail to explain and attack a sin. And yes, there is something to compare and should be ashamed of but instead the commentators on TV and radio want revenge. They talk about human animals that need exterminating. Without even blinking a wink. Just hearing it makes my heart pinch. How blind to the people on the other side, to their lives, to their pain.
All the horrible acts that we witness these days only harm our humanity, all of us. Like we became less human in less than two weeks. We lost something of our humanity and it doesn't matter who started it and who is right. Therefore specifically now, out of the loss and pain, this is the time to insist on our humanity and yours. On the sanctity of human life wherever it is. This is the time to choose life and not war. Choose peace and not revenge. Only this will stop the cycle of violence.
I refuse to lose hope, and want to believe that there are people in Israel who know and feel that it's not right. People should not die in this horrible way. That they should live in the arms of their families, in love and security and peace. True, some Palestinian friends will say it's balconies but at this point I no longer care what it looks or sounds like. I just want this to end and no one else gets killed. Enough. Enough of those that have been killed. This killing poisons the soul and life - and the machine of evil and death will not stop alone.
I ask all the mothers in Israel to stop the children in Gaza. I call women here, Palestinians and Jews, to make a clear human voice in the middle of the madness - that we want to live, not win. I call on all men to think about the fathers in Gaza who fail to protect their families, who cannot promise them anything these days. To think about the helplessness of the little people in front of the great evil machine. Please don't give a hand to this. Don't give a hand to the destruction and killing, don't give your hand to the destruction of the people in Gaza. If you want to live in peace, if you truly desire peace, now is the time to talk. It's time to do something. It's time to see humans on the other side.
"I wish the children weren't dead.. I wish they would temporarily go to heaven until the war is over, and after that they would return home in peace. And when their parents ask embarrassingly: "Where have you been?" "They will answer amused" "We played with the clouds"
Jessan Kanfani''

She has asked me to clarify:

''Just make sure its very clear that its empathy with the Palestinian people, not with the blood thirsty mutations that murdered 1400 innocent Israelis.

There is much confusion out there, not everyone knows the difference.

The BBC has just issued an apology for saying the demonstrations were in support of Hamas, which they were not.''

GrannyGravy13

Joe Biden is flying into Israel tomorrow, makes me think that Israel will not start their ground offensive before then.

There is no way that POTUS would be flying in if there was a risk to his life.

Whitewavemark2 unfortunately the ordinary people have no sway apart from at elections. Gaza hasn’t had elections since 2007 I think, at least Israel has regular elections.

Does that mean that as long as a far right government, which will and does introduce and pass legislation, which will damage and discriminate against certain people, based on their ethnic origins and their religious beliefs, is an elected government that is OK? Isn't that approving of fascism?

Call the extremists what name you want, ISIS, Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood or anything else they will still be there. In the west we can control them, in the Middle East there is no chance other than force of arms. All the neighbouring countries to Israel use military force to control the population, neighboring Jordan maintains an army of 100,000 to control a population of 11m, thats 3 times Egypt pro rata with the population

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Joe Biden is flying into Israel tomorrow, makes me think that Israel will not start their ground offensive before then.

There is no way that POTUS would be flying in if there was a risk to his life.

Whitewavemark2 unfortunately the ordinary people have no sway apart from at elections. Gaza hasn’t had elections since 2007 I think, at least Israel has regular elections.

Does that mean that as long as a far right government, which will and does introduce and pass legislation, which will damage and discriminate against certain people, based on their ethnic origins and their religious beliefs, is an elected government that is OK? Isn't that approving of fascism?

It’s up to the individual where they put their X Glorianny

Hamas have been launching missiles into Israel for years, is it any wonder that Israel tried to clear parts of Gaza of its inhabitants who as we know harbour the terrorists, some willingly.

Glorianny that’s a bit of a confusing statement. At least an elected government can lose office whereas Hamas has no legitimacy - it is unelected. I think elections are the bottom line these days….

Fleurpepper

It’s all very well to keep reproducing these long tracts from your friends in Israel. It doesn’t add anything to the discussion/debate. There are many on both sides calling for peace, myself included but the voices aren’t heard.

As for someone on another forum calling for all Palestinians to be wiped out, that’s just vile. No different from all the voices here at the weekend calling for all Israelis to suffer the same fate.

At the end of the day we on here are just voicing our opinions and they’re quite polarised. I, personally, support Israel at this current time but that hasn’t always been the case. They, ie their government, aren’t blameless or rather they haven’t always been but on this occasion I am behind them.

The scourge of radical Islam must be faced and as Oreo so rightly said upthread, western liberalism isn’t the answer.

Make no mistake, eradication of Jews isn’t their end game. They must be stopped. How? That’s for better minds than mine to decide.

Who could emerge as peace negotiators?
Looks like it wont be UN or Amnesty International.

fancythat

Who could emerge as peace negotiators?
Looks like it wont be UN or Amnesty International.

I honestly do not know who/what organisation would be acceptable for both parties.

Foxie48
The children of Gaza wound never have had a future, why: because the billions of dollars etc given to Gaza were never going to be used for the good of the people.

they must be stopped. How?
You cut off the head of the snake and the body will follow.

^Meryl Streep*

they must be stopped. How?
*You cut off the head of the snake and the body will follow.^

Let’s hope so because the IDF are facing a formidable task and many of them will die in the process.

tickingbird
Sad but true. But looking ahead how many lives will be lost In future conflicts?

Their reservists seem to be made up of some people who are middle aged and older.
I know of someone who has been called up. He must be about mid 40s.
Though they wont all go on the front line I presume.

It’s difficult not to agree with tickingbird, that the eradication of the Jews isn’t the end game for these terrorists

Jewish people are to be found in many different countries worldwide - I don’t believe that it would be possible, or desirable to eliminate Jewish people. Judaism will continue.

Of course it will ronib. That doesn’t mean everyone wants it to

Iam64 well what kind of mindset are we talking about here? Doesn’t matter what everyone wants - they whoever they are - can’t rearrange the world to their own image much as they might want to.

Iam64

It’s difficult not to agree with tickingbird, that the eradication of the Jews isn’t the end game for these terrorists

Islamic fundamentalists believe they are the only true believers and are willing to die for that cause. ISIS gave the local population the choice, fight alongside us or we will kill your family so many did join them.
Hamas have exactly the same plan they will force Palestinians to fight along side them as conscript cannon fodder, in addition they have civilians as human shields.