Nearly 1 million children faced destitution in the UK in 2022..

Luckygirl3

The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor makes me squirm. Who are we, relatively well-off, to say why people fall into poverty?

Is it because they are thick maybe? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they were brought up in a chaotic family situation? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they have mental health problems and our health service fails them? - re they able to change this? - No.

Is it because our education system failed them? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they are addicted to drugs or alcohol? - are they able to change this? - No.

A decent society recognises that there will be those with problems that are no fault of their own who will need help from the communal pot. And even if their problems are their own fault - has none of us ever made a mistake?

The sort of problems that land people in poverty are always there and it is the job of governments to try and prevent and alleviate these. Is this what our government has done? .......

- they ended Sure Start which was a scheme that was just coming into its own, helping families with problems learn parenting skills and find social support.
- they have underfunded the education system so that children with special needs do not get the help they need and teachers are dealing with non-learning problems every day to the detriment of all pupils.
- they have presided over the complete collapse of CAMHS nationwide, so that children with problems are left to the mercy of drugs gangs.

Don't give me deserving and undeserving poor - it makes me sick.

And as for "trickle down" - the idea that heaping riches on the already well off so that they will stimulate the economy by their investment in the country - that has been shown to be nonsense. They invest in themselves. And any positive spin-offs their might be to the economy get there too slowly for those visiting food banks.

I spent a large part of my working career as a social worker and know of what I speak. Those who sit behind the bullet-proof screen of their safe and comfortable life really have absolutely no idea how some people are forced to live, and how we as a society have failed them.

The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor makes me squirm. Who are we, relatively well-off, to say why people fall into poverty?

we, relatively well-off
Not everyone on Gransnet might be well-off and even those who might be comfortable now after a life-time of work, might have had real struggles when we were younger, bringing up a family.

So we can empathise as we can remember all the ways ways in which we scraped by and did without too.

growstuff

Joseann

Yes, there are Children's Centres in Redbridge where DD2 lives.

Redbridge isn't in Essex any more.

Yes, I know, I lived in IG8 until recently.
Where DD is concerned, you can take the girl out of Essex, but you can't take Essex out of the girl!

Growstuff the consultant medic I spoke to said full time was the norm but perhaps she meant for her particular job? Still much shorter maternity leave than here.

ronib

Growstuff just because you had support after two C sections, doesn’t mean all families do. It could be up to individuals to decide on support packages?
I was told too that mothers in Holland go back to work after maternity leave of three months so perhaps the Uk is kinder in that sense?

Actually most women in Holland go back to work part-time.

Joseann

Yes, there are Children's Centres in Redbridge where DD2 lives.

Redbridge isn't in Essex any more.

Whitewavemark2

growstuff

Whitewavemark2

😄 no but it did give long term and professional support to families in difficulties or where there was poor parenting.

I have no doubt that Holland, as well as giving the sort of support that used to be common place in the U.K. immediately after birth, also has long term plan for pre-primary school children and parents.

You seem to be blaming poor parenting for children being destitute. In my experience, that isn't always the case. Families and children become destitute for all sorts of reasons long after the children are born, despite the best efforts of parents (or parent).

No that is wrong. I was looking at the wider issue. Poor parenting covered both wealthy and poor parents. Indeed stats show that there is a similar level in all income levels.

But in many cases deprivation isn't caused by poor parenting - it's caused by lack of money. Parents could go to any number of parenting classes, but it wouldn't improve the state of their bank accounts.

I think I agree Joseann. And people who object to the third being mentioned tend to be doing so from the safety of a two parent household. It's an absolute disaster for women and children.

Quite probably ronib but 1 - 3 are what I consider the main social disadvantages, without underestimating other factors. 4 ,5, and 6 could undoubtedly move on to additional hardships. I'm no politician, but starting in a practical order would be my plan.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 I have just done a quick online search regarding Sure Start Centres, one in three have been closed not all of them.

There are definitely some in Essex, some under the heading of Family Centres.

Oh yes - but my point is that they were neither extended nor developed. The concept stopped with Cameron.

It varies from area to area, the centre closest to me starts from pre-natal care, has a nursery attached along with being next to the local primary school.

Not sure who mentioned midwives visiting once mums and new babies are released from hospital, they still do in this area up to date 10, along with regular visits from Health Visitor. During Covid the Health Visitors rang and would only visit if there were any problems.

It seems that there needs to be more information given out at GP’s when women first find out they are pregnant. The services are around but not every new mum is aware of them, and in all probability those who could benefit the most are not accessing them.

Joseann interesting that you have not considered the impact of mental illness on family life. Not just you of course … but the majority of politicians who speak around the subject. Also impact of being a child Carer …..

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 I have just done a quick online search regarding Sure Start Centres, one in three have been closed not all of them.

There are definitely some in Essex, some under the heading of Family Centres.

Oh yes - but my point is that they were neither extended nor developed. The concept stopped with Cameron.

growstuff

Whitewavemark2

😄 no but it did give long term and professional support to families in difficulties or where there was poor parenting.

I have no doubt that Holland, as well as giving the sort of support that used to be common place in the U.K. immediately after birth, also has long term plan for pre-primary school children and parents.

You seem to be blaming poor parenting for children being destitute. In my experience, that isn't always the case. Families and children become destitute for all sorts of reasons long after the children are born, despite the best efforts of parents (or parent).

No that is wrong. I was looking at the wider issue. Poor parenting covered both wealthy and poor parents. Indeed stats show that there is a similar level in all income levels.

Yes, there are Children's Centres in Redbridge where DD2 lives.

Whitewavemark2 I have just done a quick online search regarding Sure Start Centres, one in three have been closed not all of them.

There are definitely some in Essex, some under the heading of Family Centres.

*far not for

I think there are 3 main reasons for child destitution as it is being referred to.
1. Being raised in a low income family
2. Living in poor housing
3. Several children, 5 or more, living in a one parent family
None of these on their own is totally responsible for deprivation, and on their own could be overcome, but added together en masse they are disastrous as has been proven to be the case. I would guesstimate that maybe 4 in every classroom are in this category.
I agree with the poster who said there needs to be for more support.

Growstuff just because you had support after two C sections, doesn’t mean all families do. It could be up to individuals to decide on support packages?
I was told too that mothers in Holland go back to work after maternity leave of three months so perhaps the Uk is kinder in that sense?

Whitewavemark2

😄 no but it did give long term and professional support to families in difficulties or where there was poor parenting.

I have no doubt that Holland, as well as giving the sort of support that used to be common place in the U.K. immediately after birth, also has long term plan for pre-primary school children and parents.

You seem to be blaming poor parenting for children being destitute. In my experience, that isn't always the case. Families and children become destitute for all sorts of reasons long after the children are born, despite the best efforts of parents (or parent).

Where are the government policies to narrow the wealth gap in the UK, to ensure health equality, education equality and safeguard the well-being of the poor?

ronib

Wwwm2 the Dutch system gives much more hands on care to include help with household chores as well as breastfeeding advice. A full 8 hours in house. It must be very reassuring for new mothers especially if needing to recuperate from the birth. Goes beyond the UK’s provision, Tory or Labour.

Sorry, but having somebody in the house for 8 hours was the absolute last thing I wanted/needed after giving birth (and I had two c sections).

Wwwm2 the Dutch system gives much more hands on care to include help with household chores as well as breastfeeding advice. A full 8 hours in house. It must be very reassuring for new mothers especially if needing to recuperate from the birth. Goes beyond the UK’s provision, Tory or Labour.

ronib

Well the beauty of the Dutch system is that all mothers can access support and six weeks is a long time to wait when in crisis. Help given in the first 8 days makes much better sense.
I am surprised that Angela Rayner isn’t looking into this type of intervention or perhaps she is?

But you see, we used to have that sort of help in the U.K. - as far as we are concerned the Dutch are reinventing the wheel. After giving birth to my children, I was visited by the local midwife for 10 days I think and after there were weekly meetings in the local health centre, where mums could get advice, help and support if necessary. If mums failed to turn up at the weekly meetings, the nurse knew enough about her mums to know who might be in difficulties etc, and pay them a visit or speak to them in the road etc.

Trashed by the Tories.

Sure start also needed decades to make fundamental changes to childrens lives, it wasnt magic and needed to be given a chance to make mistakes, refine support etc. You are often unpicking issues across many generations, people want easy solutions unfortunately.

My DiL managed one - which was a hub for the nursery, parenting classes and help together with a dedicated social worker who i assume picked up the more difficult cases.

It was so well thought of that, middle class parent applied for nursery places.

Tories sold it off. All it is now is an expensive nursery. My DIL left, and had entirely different career now.

Well the beauty of the Dutch system is that all mothers can access support and six weeks is a long time to wait when in crisis. Help given in the first 8 days makes much better sense.
I am surprised that Angela Rayner isn’t looking into this type of intervention or perhaps she is?