Nearly 1 million children faced destitution in the UK in 2022..

My grandson's primary school have an unusually high intake, this year, (in nursery) of children needing extra support, due to autism and learning and/or behavioural difficulties. The headteacher suspects that it may be due to the pandemic.

He is five, but attends part time (mornings) by agreement. The school employ a support assistant, just for him - so that when his autism assessment is finally completed - it can't be argued that he doesn't need one (having managed without). That's how it works, apparently.

GSM, if we have children who are short-changed, unsupported, failing to achieve - even 'invisible', they'll grow up to be a problem for society, surely? 'A stitch in time saves nine' and false economy spring to mind.

We have always had them and we always will. They are indeed a problem for ‘society’, but I don’t believe that will ever change.

These young people do indeed grow up to be a problem for society and then need help from the underfunded social services, the underfunded drug rehab services, the underfunded health services, the underfunded police services, the underfunded probation services, the underfunded prison services etc.
That is how we all suffer.

You will never stop that. It’s too easy to steal or deal drugs rather than work for a living. As individuals we only suffer if they decide to mug us, stab us or steal our nice cars. Obviously you think chucking more money at the problem will solve it. I disagree. You’re talking about kids who don’t want to engage, don’t want to live by our rules, think we’re idiots for working our backsides off to get the things we want rather than just stealing from someone else.

Children aren't born lazy, greedy or evil. They are innocent and brimming with potential. Their experience of life, others' views and expectations of them and the opportunities they have (or don't have) largely determine the type of adults they'll eventually be.

An example - Iceland - one of the OECD countries which invests most in it's education system. The National Curriculum (guide), focused on real understanding, is inclusive and based on six pillars:

Literacy in the widest sense,

Education towards sustainability,

Health and welfare,

Democracy and human rights,

Equality

Creativity.

Oh, and Iceland has a very low crime rate.

Hetty58

Children aren't born lazy, greedy or evil. They are innocent and brimming with potential. Their experience of life, others' views and expectations of them and the opportunities they have (or don't have) largely determine the type of adults they'll eventually be.

Absolutely this.

I can’t think dealing drugs is easy, surely it’s frightening and dangerous

Germanshepherdsmum

You will never stop that. It’s too easy to steal or deal drugs rather than work for a living. As individuals we only suffer if they decide to mug us, stab us or steal our nice cars. Obviously you think chucking more money at the problem will solve it. I disagree. You’re talking about kids who don’t want to engage, don’t want to live by our rules, think we’re idiots for working our backsides off to get the things we want rather than just stealing from someone else.

You clearly dislike that someone might "mug us, stab us or steal our nice cars." So you do know exactly how the absence of investment in people and in preventive services impacts on all of us, in spite of saying itherwise upthread.
Solid supportive family services are a long term investment in our society and the longer this is lacking the harder it will be to make any impact.
I also care about the individual young people who are growing up in poverty and chaos and are missing out on their one chance of a happy life.

I’m sure many social workers have done their best but failed because the parents simply don’t engage. However much money you chuck at the problem there will always be people who just don’t want to know.

As for Iceland, lauded by Hetty, the following breakdown of their immigrant population is interesting. I think many will agree that this shows significant differences to the immigrant population of the UK. I believe there is some significance in this, though we have always had lazy home-bred criminals:
www.statista.com/statistics/595181/number-of-immigrants-by-country-of-origin-in-iceland/

JaneJudge

I can’t think dealing drugs is easy, surely it’s frightening and dangerous

That all depends where you come in the pecking order of dealing 😉

It does. But lucrative enough for kids to take the risk, and what’s going to happen to them if they’re caught? Not a lot. Prison is reserved for those higher up the food chain.

This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased.
Charles Dickens

Germanshepherdsmum

It does. But lucrative enough for kids to take the risk, and what’s going to happen to them if they’re caught? Not a lot. Prison is reserved for those higher up the food chain.

A former pupil of mine who got into drug-dealing was murdered.

keepcalmandcavachon Charles Dickens has been foremost in my mind since the start of this thread. That’s a great quote. The shame is that it’s still pertinent today. Probably into the future too.

And a fellow pupil of my son’s, in rural Essex, committed a drug-related murder.

GSM what do you think can be done to improve inequality? I don't mean by individuals, but by 'society'/governments/authority?

Germanshepherdsmum

You will never stop that. It’s too easy to steal or deal drugs rather than work for a living. As individuals we only suffer if they decide to mug us, stab us or steal our nice cars. Obviously you think chucking more money at the problem will solve it. I disagree. You’re talking about kids who don’t want to engage, don’t want to live by our rules, think we’re idiots for working our backsides off to get the things we want rather than just stealing from someone else.

There is substantial evidence that the programme begun in some states in the USA, and on which Sure Start was modelled, significantly reduced the involvement of deprived children in crime as they grew older. So actually "chucking more money at the problem" does work

I have no idea Doodledog. My belief is that it’s up to the individual. Everyone has the benefit of an education. All pregnant women have access to antenatal classes which include parenting skills. Everyone has access to contraception. All this has been the case for many, many years. But people simply don’t want to take advantage of these things and make the necessary effort to make their lives better than those of their parents. I wonder how many children have, this morning, had to get themselves to school (or off to play truant, getting into trouble) hungry and ill-clothed because their mothers are still lying in bed (perhaps with yet another boyfriend) and just can’t be bothered? Will those children bother to try not to repeat the pattern when they have children of their own or will they just replicate that lifestyle down the years? What do you think any government can do about this CBA attitude?

All the police can do is try to contain the low level drug, other criminality and vice, they do know who is involved but there is no point in trying to prosecute the small fry because the penalties are derisory. Also having a police record will make it even more difficult for them in future years, there should much more effort into stopping children getting involved in gangs.

Is it likely to happen?

There are still Sure Start and similar centres Glorianny.

Germanshepherdsmum

There are still Sure Start and similar centres Glorianny.

The Conservatives have substantially cut them GSM
Under the Conservative Government (2019–2022)
In February 2020, the reviewed report has shown that 1300 centers have been closed during the last 10 years, meaning more than one in three Sure Start centres were axed under the Tories, the brutal cuts have seen 1,292 of the vital family centres shut since 2010, ministers admit. At their peak in 2009/10, there were 3,600 centres. The austerity slashed numbers by up to 85 per cent in some areas. In Staffs, 46 of 54 centres shut, and Oxfordshire lost 37 of its 45.
And in fact the centres showed economic viability
In June 2019, a study conducted by the Institute for Fiscal Studies concluded that Sure Start reduced the numbers of people taken to hospital and saved millions of pounds for the National Health Service. The study found that where Sure Start offered high levels of service in poor neighbourhoods in England, visits to hospital to treat injuries fell among all children of primary school age, and by a third of all 11-year-olds.[10] Access to the programme cut the probability of admission to hospital in the poorest 30% of areas by 19% at the age of 11, while in the richest 30% of areas there was almost no impact. Across all areas, the programme's effect was equivalent to annually averting 5,500 hospitalisations of 11-year-olds
So they were effective,

And still are.

How do you stop children getting into gangs Katie? This is really the responsibility of the parents. How many of the gang members have no father figure, or one who is involved in criminality? How many parents just have no idea where their children are in the evenings?