Nearly 1 million children faced destitution in the UK in 2022..

ronib

Growstuff just because you had support after two C sections, doesn’t mean all families do. It could be up to individuals to decide on support packages?
I was told too that mothers in Holland go back to work after maternity leave of three months so perhaps the Uk is kinder in that sense?

Actually most women in Holland go back to work part-time.

Growstuff the consultant medic I spoke to said full time was the norm but perhaps she meant for her particular job? Still much shorter maternity leave than here.

growstuff

Joseann

Yes, there are Children's Centres in Redbridge where DD2 lives.

Redbridge isn't in Essex any more.

Yes, I know, I lived in IG8 until recently.
Where DD is concerned, you can take the girl out of Essex, but you can't take Essex out of the girl!

Luckygirl3

The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor makes me squirm. Who are we, relatively well-off, to say why people fall into poverty?

Is it because they are thick maybe? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they were brought up in a chaotic family situation? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they have mental health problems and our health service fails them? - re they able to change this? - No.

Is it because our education system failed them? - are they able to change this? - No.

Is it because they are addicted to drugs or alcohol? - are they able to change this? - No.

A decent society recognises that there will be those with problems that are no fault of their own who will need help from the communal pot. And even if their problems are their own fault - has none of us ever made a mistake?

The sort of problems that land people in poverty are always there and it is the job of governments to try and prevent and alleviate these. Is this what our government has done? .......

- they ended Sure Start which was a scheme that was just coming into its own, helping families with problems learn parenting skills and find social support.
- they have underfunded the education system so that children with special needs do not get the help they need and teachers are dealing with non-learning problems every day to the detriment of all pupils.
- they have presided over the complete collapse of CAMHS nationwide, so that children with problems are left to the mercy of drugs gangs.

Don't give me deserving and undeserving poor - it makes me sick.

And as for "trickle down" - the idea that heaping riches on the already well off so that they will stimulate the economy by their investment in the country - that has been shown to be nonsense. They invest in themselves. And any positive spin-offs their might be to the economy get there too slowly for those visiting food banks.

I spent a large part of my working career as a social worker and know of what I speak. Those who sit behind the bullet-proof screen of their safe and comfortable life really have absolutely no idea how some people are forced to live, and how we as a society have failed them.

The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor makes me squirm. Who are we, relatively well-off, to say why people fall into poverty?

we, relatively well-off
Not everyone on Gransnet might be well-off and even those who might be comfortable now after a life-time of work, might have had real struggles when we were younger, bringing up a family.

So we can empathise as we can remember all the ways ways in which we scraped by and did without too.

I can empathise with struggling single mothers even though I had no personal experience of that and I can get very angry on their behalf.
Absent fathers should be made to pay up.

Yes of course and if they dont the government should ensure those children are protected financially, even if magically that happens those children will still experience disadvantage compared to those with non absent fathers. If I remember rightly the impact is particularly significant for boys.

Whitewavemark2

ronib

Well the beauty of the Dutch system is that all mothers can access support and six weeks is a long time to wait when in crisis. Help given in the first 8 days makes much better sense.
I am surprised that Angela Rayner isn’t looking into this type of intervention or perhaps she is?

But you see, we used to have that sort of help in the U.K. - as far as we are concerned the Dutch are reinventing the wheel. After giving birth to my children, I was visited by the local midwife for 10 days I think and after there were weekly meetings in the local health centre, where mums could get advice, help and support if necessary. If mums failed to turn up at the weekly meetings, the nurse knew enough about her mums to know who might be in difficulties etc, and pay them a visit or speak to them in the road etc.

Trashed by the Tories.

Yes, there were the baby clinics, staffed by health visitors where you could go weekly to get baby weighed, buy milk etc if you couldn't breastfeed, ask for advice get told off if your baby didn't gain weight and meet other new mums for a chat.

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

ronib

Well the beauty of the Dutch system is that all mothers can access support and six weeks is a long time to wait when in crisis. Help given in the first 8 days makes much better sense.
I am surprised that Angela Rayner isn’t looking into this type of intervention or perhaps she is?

But you see, we used to have that sort of help in the U.K. - as far as we are concerned the Dutch are reinventing the wheel. After giving birth to my children, I was visited by the local midwife for 10 days I think and after there were weekly meetings in the local health centre, where mums could get advice, help and support if necessary. If mums failed to turn up at the weekly meetings, the nurse knew enough about her mums to know who might be in difficulties etc, and pay them a visit or speak to them in the road etc.

Trashed by the Tories.

Yes, there were the baby clinics, staffed by health visitors where you could go weekly to get baby weighed, buy milk etc if you couldn't breastfeed, ask for advice get told off if your baby didn't gain weight and meet other new mums for a chat.

A quick online search shows that there are still baby clinics in the U.K.

I have one near me (within walking distance)

ronib

Joseann interesting that you have not considered the impact of mental illness on family life. Not just you of course … but the majority of politicians who speak around the subject. Also impact of being a child Carer …..

ronib, did you see the child carers on a news item yesterday? One 12 year old boy was taking sole care of his mother, a young girl had been the carer for her mother and younger siblings since she was 11, doing everything including washing, ironing, cooking etc.

There seems to be little in the way of help for these children

Yet again, no fathers appeared to be present.

A quick online search shows that there are still baby clinics in the U.K

There are clinics here, but they don't seem to be the same. They are run by the practice nurses and an appointment is necessary. More like a check-up than a social occasion.

For sure, children with only one parent are likely to have less help and attention from adults than children with two parents. They might also be vulnerable emotionally as well as economically. It's a hard one to measure.

Callistemon21 Barnados works with children who are the main carers to their parents and siblings. This category of children is known about but for some reason, ignored by governments. I think it’s a disgrace.

And what has this government done to help with any of this?

That is not a rhetorical question.

ronib

Growstuff the consultant medic I spoke to said full time was the norm but perhaps she meant for her particular job? Still much shorter maternity leave than here.

That's not what my Dutch friend says.

This article (and others I've read) support that:

www.dutchnews.nl/2022/09/most-mothers-never-go-back-to-full-time-work-survey-shows/#:~:text=Some%2070%25%20of%20women%20in,SCP%20researcher%20Wil%20Portegijs%20said.

But in many cases deprivation isn't caused by poor parenting - it's caused by lack of money Parents could go to any number of parenting classes, but it wouldn't improve the state of their bank accounts.

I love the way nearly every poster is steadfastly ignoring this extremely salient point. 🤔

MaizieD

^But in many cases deprivation isn't caused by poor parenting - it's caused by lack of money Parents could go to any number of parenting classes, but it wouldn't improve the state of their bank accounts.^

I love the way nearly every poster is steadfastly ignoring this extremely salient point. 🤔

Prices have gone up across the board, particularly energy costs. If you are already on a limited budget any price increase can be the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back

Whilst in principle I do no agree with Universal Credit to top up low wages (employers should pay their employees a decent wage, which in turn helps with a happy and more productive workforce, win win situation) it is a lifeline for many families.

I can only repeat my earlier post it is never the child’s fault

Okay deprivation is caused by rising inflation, low wages and increasing fuel and food prices. However I met a granny recently who was sharing her 3 bedroom cottage with her married daughter, son in law and 2 grandchildren. Daughter was a stay at home mother and son in law not in a well paid job. They managed.
So deprivation will be handled differently according to circumstances?

ronib - that is not deprivation - it is unfortunate, but not deprivation. which is far far worse than the scenario you describe.

I ask again - what has this government done to improve the lot of the poor?

The government’s policy is that work should pay more than benefits - if you are able to work then you should. Do you consider that’s wrong Lucky?

Luckygirl3 but families on one salary paying either rent or mortgages especially in the SE will be tipped into economic deprivation?
The government does have payments for families to help with housing benefits etc and next year is introducing free childcare for 15 hours a week for children over 2 years. Children over 3 now have 30 hours free childcare. So seems deliberate policy to encourage two income families?

I believe so ronib. If that enables people to work rather than claim benefits I fully support it. Work should pay more than benefits.

Callistemon21

^A quick online search shows that there are still baby clinics in the U.K^

There are clinics here, but they don't seem to be the same. They are run by the practice nurses and an appointment is necessary. More like a check-up than a social occasion.

The number of health visitors has dropped dramatically and they consider the service is not suitable. It's complicated because some are employed by the NHS and some by other organisations However what is absolutely certain is that the support many of us had when we had children is no longer there. ihv.org.uk/news-and-views/news/health-visitor-workforce-numbers-in-england-reach-an-all-time-low/
It will of course be children born into poverty who will suffer the most, many of them will be underfed and some will be abused
Despite health visitors’ best efforts, families are being left without the support that they need, and the consequences have been catastrophic for some families.

ronib

Luckygirl3 but families on one salary paying either rent or mortgages especially in the SE will be tipped into economic deprivation?
The government does have payments for families to help with housing benefits etc and next year is introducing free childcare for 15 hours a week for children over 2 years. Children over 3 now have 30 hours free childcare. So seems deliberate policy to encourage two income families?

But nurseries are closing because the money the government is supplying is not enough, and they would need to increase the cost to parents to cover the shortfall. When this isn't possible they close.
ndna.org.uk/news/childcare-crisis-98-4-of-nurseries-losing-1000s-due-to-funding-shortfall/

Glorianny

Callistemon21

A quick online search shows that there are still baby clinics in the U.K

There are clinics here, but they don't seem to be the same. They are run by the practice nurses and an appointment is necessary. More like a check-up than a social occasion.

The number of health visitors has dropped dramatically and they consider the service is not suitable. It's complicated because some are employed by the NHS and some by other organisations However what is absolutely certain is that the support many of us had when we had children is no longer there. ihv.org.uk/news-and-views/news/health-visitor-workforce-numbers-in-england-reach-an-all-time-low/
It will of course be children born into poverty who will suffer the most, many of them will be underfed and some will be abused
^Despite health visitors’ best efforts, families are being left without the support that they need, and the consequences have been catastrophic for some families.^

It used to be an enjoyable social occasion, friends were made, some lifelong.

The last Health Visitor I saw was over 35 years ago, she was dismissive and unhelpful. She made a perfunctory visit when we moved here, I tried to voice my concerns about DC3 and she airily said she'd be fine and I never saw the HV again.