Starmer’s Dilemma Over Palestinian Situation

I think the Far Left are weaponizing Gaza to attack Starmer because he has brought the Labour Party to the point of electability which it never achieved under Corbyn.

Totally agree! I find it absolutely abhorrent that the far left so-called Labour supporters would prefer to see the Conservatives win the next GE rather than Keir Starmer’s Labour. Talk about a pyrrhic victory - or ‘cutting your nose off to spite your face’!

ronib

Glorianny surely if as you say you have been involved with Israeli policies and their effects for some time, you will understand that whether anyone on this forum thinks you personally are weaponising the Gaza conflict is quite irrelevant. Do you not think that there are a multitude of players at a country level who are weaponising this situation? Whether you are in favour or not of which way the weaponising is being played is a separate discussion?

Others may be weaponising Gaza but that wasn't what Grantnow said, she said the far left (which I am often called) are doing so.
The far left have been asking that action be taken to sort out Gaza for many years.

Well said LizzieDrip.
I wrote to KS a couple of days ago. I acknowledged the reasons for his position and expressed horror at the bombing of innocent Palestinians, said id support a ceasefire rather than brief periods for humanitarian reasons.
I’ve had a lengthy detailed compassionate response. The kind of genuine response I’d expect from a good mp/leader.
He’s criticised as ‘flip flop’ and also when he maintains a position he clearly believes is the least worst.

The far left (and far right) know far more, and understand ‘the truth’ far better than anybody else, no matter what the subject. Compromise or understanding of other points of view isn’t in their vocabulary. They spit on pragmatism.

Casdon

The far left (and far right) know far more, and understand ‘the truth’ far better than anybody else, no matter what the subject. Compromise or understanding of other points of view isn’t in their vocabulary. They spit on pragmatism.

Casdon - so well expressed, thank you

Very good Casdon.
So no one bothered about Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia and China in this conflict? Just far left and far right?

I think one of the problems with Starmer's response to the war is that he has always supported Israel in spite of the evidence which has been presented about what was happening to the Palestinian people.
He tried consistently to equate support for Palestine with anti-semitism. It is fairly useless now, but there should be some reflection about what might have happened if the voices expressing concerns about Palestinians had been listened to and more international pressure had been exerted on Israel. Arguably the influence of Hamas would have been lessened and terrorism reduced. Certainly, when Israel have managed to reach whatever level of destruction will satisfy them, some sort of equality and justice for Palestine will be needed. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a British politician who will speak up for them,

The French President is calling on Israel to stop bombing women and children called for a ceasefire Asked if Britain and America should call a ceasefire he said I would hope so.
Thats all.

Another misrepresentation of Starmer’s position by Gloryanny

Apart from the IRA (excluding the so called New IRA who are raising their heads) are there any terrorist organisations that have adhered to negotiations in recent times?

Could someone explain this call for a ceasefire. Even if the whole world was calling for a ceasefire, do we believe Hamas and Israel would just stop?

No, Louella. This is just a silly stick to try and beat others with. The people using it in this way are not stupid, they just behave stupidly. It's rather like people deciding to chop off a leg because it isn't working in the way they want, only to be surprised later when they find they cannot walk.

It wouldn’t actually make any difference if Starmer did change his position. Would Hamas suddenly say okay, Starmer’s changed his position so we’ll stop firing the rockets and release the hostages? Labour is tearing itself apart over an issue that Starmer has no control over.

Yes i am quite worried about that aspect, what happens will have zero impact on the Israel/Palestine situation but this could go either way for the labour party.

Galaxy

Yes i am quite worried about that aspect, what happens will have zero impact on the Israel/Palestine situation but this could go either way for the labour party.

I m beginning to think that there are factions within the Labour Party who do not want a Labour Government, they appear to be more interested in infighting.

They want a far left led government

Louella12

Could someone explain this call for a ceasefire. Even if the whole world was calling for a ceasefire, do we believe Hamas and Israel would just stop?

No but if the two main weapons suppliers to Israel- the UK and the US- were to ask, and to threaten to withdraw any arms licences if any of the armaments they supplied were being used against civilians, Israel would certainly listen.
And to all those who say "They'd just go somewhere else" you fail to understand the complexities of the equipment and the technology, it's not like shopping for food.
The inability of so many to understand that we are complicit in the deaths of 10,000 Palestinians always astounds me.

Glorianny

Louella12

Could someone explain this call for a ceasefire. Even if the whole world was calling for a ceasefire, do we believe Hamas and Israel would just stop?

No but if the two main weapons suppliers to Israel- the UK and the US- were to ask, and to threaten to withdraw any arms licences if any of the armaments they supplied were being used against civilians, Israel would certainly listen.
And to all those who say "They'd just go somewhere else" you fail to understand the complexities of the equipment and the technology, it's not like shopping for food.
The inability of so many to understand that we are complicit in the deaths of 10,000 Palestinians always astounds me.

Let’s hope Iran listens and stops supplying Hamas with weaponry.

Which continues to surprise me that Hamas supply of arms is never ending, whereas the civilian population hasn’t enough food or medical supplies.

Hamas couldn’t have an agenda could they?

While everyone who opposes genocide is called a “Hamas supporter”, the genocide supporters overlook how Benjamin Netanyahu helped funnel up to $1 billion of Qatari money to Hamas. In the UK, you can get arrested for terrorism for praising Hamas, but send Hamas money and Rishi Sunak will praise you. Why is no one calling Netanyahu a Hamas supporter when he financially supported them?

Saudi Prince, Turki bin Faisal, said this last month:

"I condemn Hamas for sabotaging the attempt of Saudi Arabia to reach a peaceful resolution to the plight of the Palestinian people.

“I condemn Israel for funnelling Qatari money to Hamas.”

CBC reports that Netanyahu literally begged the Qataris to keep sending the money for Hamas. Ehud Barak told Israel Army Radio, Netanyahu’s strategy was to “keep Hamas alive and kicking.” The aim was to ensure Israel could push the line that it has “no partner for peace”, but not everyone was on board with this strategy.

Netanyahu’s former education minister, Naftali Bennett, denounced the suitcases of Qatari cash and insisted they must stop. The head of Israel’s defence ministry, Avigdor Liberman, resigned, saying it was: “the first time Israel is funding terrorism against itself.”

It seems clear that Netanyahu and Hamas need each other. We’re at the point where opposing the man who funnelled $1 billion to Hamas makes you a Hamas supporter, but not him. It’s scary how the people who say this can’t see how deranged they seem to anyone with a moral compass.

GrannyGravy13

Apart from the IRA (excluding the so called New IRA who are raising their heads) are there any terrorist organisations that have adhered to negotiations in recent times?

There's an interesting report about terrorism it says about ways of preventing its growth
Influence over society and its governance is the most important factor that determines the size, longevity,and success of a terrorist group. Programs and policies that reduce the influence of groups will have the most power to disrupt terror networks.

In order to disrupt recruitment by terrorist groups,nations need to address both recruitment methods and motivation.

To address the motivations to join a terrorist group,both social and economic inclusion need to be promoted
You can read it here visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/GTI-2020-web-1.pdf.

Grany you appear to forget that Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza, it controls everything including the Ministry of Health, hospitals, schools.

The money sent to the Gaza rulers/government was for the civilians and infrastructure, instead Hamas used it to buy weaponry and construct tunnels under the city to protect itself, not giving a single thought to the civilians who elected them to their positions.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Apart from the IRA (excluding the so called New IRA who are raising their heads) are there any terrorist organisations that have adhered to negotiations in recent times?

There's an interesting report about terrorism it says about ways of preventing its growth
Influence over society and its governance is the most important factor that determines the size, longevity,and success of a terrorist group. Programs and policies that reduce the influence of groups will have the most power to disrupt terror networks.

In order to disrupt recruitment by terrorist groups,nations need to address both recruitment methods and motivation.

To address the motivations to join a terrorist group,both social and economic inclusion need to be promoted
You can read it here visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/GTI-2020-web-1.pdf.

Not sure, Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, Taliban or any other extreme terrorist organisation has read the memo Glorianny

Iam64

Another misrepresentation of Starmer’s position by Gloryanny

Could you explain exactly how?
This is a detailed analysis of Starmer's position on Israel/Palestine before the war and how it conflicts with Labour party policy decided by votes at conference.
tribunemag.co.uk/2022/04/keir-starmer-labour-party-israel-apartheid-palestine-amnesty-report-jewish-chronicle

Sadly even the deaths of 10,000 has failed to shift his position. It isn't anyone in the Labour party's fault that they have a leader who has aligned himself with a far right government which practises apartheid.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Apart from the IRA (excluding the so called New IRA who are raising their heads) are there any terrorist organisations that have adhered to negotiations in recent times?

There's an interesting report about terrorism it says about ways of preventing its growth
Influence over society and its governance is the most important factor that determines the size, longevity,and success of a terrorist group. Programs and policies that reduce the influence of groups will have the most power to disrupt terror networks.

In order to disrupt recruitment by terrorist groups,nations need to address both recruitment methods and motivation.

To address the motivations to join a terrorist group,both social and economic inclusion need to be promoted
You can read it here visionofhumanity.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/GTI-2020-web-1.pdf.

Not sure, Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, Taliban or any other extreme terrorist organisation has read the memo Glorianny

What a silly statement about such an important issue. Terrorists are recruited, the reasons why they are recruited are well known. Gaza fits the profile exactly. Changing social and economic conditions and promoting inclusion stop terrorist recruitment. Deaths and bombings don't.

Actually it is not a silly statement as you put it.

You can cut and paste/post links as much as you like however, the bottom line is terrorists are not likely to read any of the papers on them or their causes.

Not all terrorists are poverty stricken, those at the top and middle are as a rule extremely wealthy through drugs, people trafficking and any other illegal means they care to operate.

The foot soldiers are indoctrinated, some from birth that the West is the route of all their ills, and the only way forward is to eliminate those who do not follow their God or laws.