Covid Inquiry

I think Keir Starmer was elected leader of the Labour Party in April 2020, so in the middle of the pandemic. There’s no way to know how he would have performed had his party been in power at the time. In any case, as I said earlier, every country in the world was dealing with this and the deaths all over the world were huge. There may have been fewer or more deaths with Starmer in charge, but I do feel there would have been considerably fewer breaking of rules as Starmer seems to be a reasonably principled man (if a bit flip floppy.)
What do I know though?

I worked at a major teaching hospital throughout covid and unfortunately decisions were made about not just the age but the clinical condition of patients who could go to ICU - they had to be made because demand exceeded supply. You can’t just create endless ICU beds. This would have happened in every hospital and had nothing to do with govt policy. It was down to the clinicians to make these extremely difficult and distressing decisions.

sazz1

So do you think Labour under KS would have done any better? He chose to ignore many many complaints as head of CPS about Jimmy Savile. Makes you think what else would he have ignored during the pandemic.

I don’t care which government was in charge, if they had behaved in the same way as that lot did I would be expecting the same level of scrutiny and would feel the same level of anger. This is not about party politics but about a government that appeared to behave in ways that were immoral, corrupt and reckless.

It’s not really a defence to say the other lot would have been just as bad.

Iam64

sazz1

So do you think Labour under KS would have done any better? He chose to ignore many many complaints as head of CPS about Jimmy Savile. Makes you think what else would he have ignored during the pandemic.

No sizzle, you’re entirely wrong. Starmer was head of CPS during a period 2007-2008 when four allegations were made to Surrey and Sussex police that Saville had indecently assaulted girls and young women in the 1970’s.
Starmer was not the lawyer involved in reviewing the police information. There is no evidence that Starmer was directly involved in the decision not to prosecute Saville.

I am so tired of the same accusation being made over and over again by the same people who absolutely refuse to believe the truth when it is carefully explained.

It does make one just tend to ignore or dismiss anything else they might have to say.

MerylStreep
I wish I’d gone to my daughter and carried on doing the childcare for her. I didn’t mind the lockdown as I thought it was protecting us, but it didn’t protect my daughter from being persuaded by her manipulative husband from taking advantage of our absence to persuade her to move away from her loving family to New Zealand. He would never have achieved that without lockdown. She had refused for eleven years to move abroad because we were/are a close family, but he had always wanted to dispose of family, both his and hers.
They’re separated now, divorce will follow in a few months. He refuses to allow her to bring the children home to the UK to live.
Maybe if we hadn’t obeyed lockdown this would never have happened.

Thanks for starting this thread, GrandmaBatty. I have been wondering if Johnson fans have been taking any notice of the Inquiry, but I rather fear they might all be sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "La la la la". Truly devoted fans can see no wrong and I find it very disturbing. They still talk of "charisma" where I would like to see integrity. Or they try to throw mud at Starmer - so glad you answered that, Iam64. (I'd also like to remind Sazzl that Thatcher put Savile forward three times for a knighthood.) There's talk of learning lessons, but the fact is this government hadn't learnt any lessons from SARS. What a disastrous shambles.

Casdon - We were supposed to have a Wales only enquiry re Covid however The First Officer refused to have one. There were different approaches in Wales and we were kept in lockdown a lot longer than England.

I just wish we could avoid the ‘goady’ comments alluding to perceived uncritical tribal political affiliations. If we are not careful this thread will lose its excellent focus about the wider analysis of the inquiry in my opinion.

The Response to Covid was down to the Doctors and Specialists of SAGE the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies. The Government are not Medical Experts and just provided the Money.

The Comments of Simon Case and Dominic Cummins should be considered on the basis that they have very personal axes to grind.

JANH

Casdon - We were supposed to have a Wales only enquiry re Covid however The First Officer refused to have one. There were different approaches in Wales and we were kept in lockdown a lot longer than England.

I live in Wales, so I know about the decision not to have a separate Inquiry, and it was the right decision, what a waste of public money it would have been, when the actions taken by all the UK governments will be scrutinised anyway in the UK wide Inquiry. No doubt mistakes were made in Wales as they were elsewhere, and one of the really important aspects of the UK inquiry is to compare the different approaches, to identify how much freedom the individual nations had in decision making and to improve on the communication for next time. This is interesting though.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67289154

Thanks Casdon, I was a little behind with my reading and that link helped clarify.

maddyone

MerylStreep
I wish I’d gone to my daughter and carried on doing the childcare for her. I didn’t mind the lockdown as I thought it was protecting us, but it didn’t protect my daughter from being persuaded by her manipulative husband from taking advantage of our absence to persuade her to move away from her loving family to New Zealand. He would never have achieved that without lockdown. She had refused for eleven years to move abroad because we were/are a close family, but he had always wanted to dispose of family, both his and hers.
They’re separated now, divorce will follow in a few months. He refuses to allow her to bring the children home to the UK to live.
Maybe if we hadn’t obeyed lockdown this would never have happened.

Oh, maddyone. That is so sad. I know from your posts how much it has hurt you to be separated from your DD and grandchildren. I do hope that there is successful resolution for you all.

maddyone

MerylStreep
I wish I’d gone to my daughter and carried on doing the childcare for her. I didn’t mind the lockdown as I thought it was protecting us, but it didn’t protect my daughter from being persuaded by her manipulative husband from taking advantage of our absence to persuade her to move away from her loving family to New Zealand. He would never have achieved that without lockdown. She had refused for eleven years to move abroad because we were/are a close family, but he had always wanted to dispose of family, both his and hers.
They’re separated now, divorce will follow in a few months. He refuses to allow her to bring the children home to the UK to live.
Maybe if we hadn’t obeyed lockdown this would never have happened.

Are any of them Kiwi born? If not, they don't automatically have the right to live there. Another problem is, I assume your daughter is UK born, if he is Kiwi, SHE has to prove she needs to be there. My sister married a kiwi in the 90's, had sprogs, then came over here for 14 yrs, went back BUT she has to prove that she's there legally, married, children (though all adult now) and WONT be a burden on the state (one reason mum can't go over, she's too decrepit!) Another issue, is hubby WONT do a will and laws are different, she doesn't automatically get it, no will, HIS family get good portion and they hate her, always have done, meaning property over here that is half his/half hers, they could lay claim to. This worries mum as that property was originally hers, she deeded it to 2 of my sisters, one sold her share to brother in law.

I CAN imagine what you're feeling and if your daughter is genuinely in distress, there is help, surely? I know a lot of folk say NZ brill etc. It is beautiful, reminded me of Wales when I went BUT it's also expensive. Every day stuff is more than here, sister is constantly complaining and wants to come back but he doesn't for a couple of years. He's actually recovering from major surgery at the moment which the GP managed to get free as he should have paid. Son has type 1 diabetes, HE has to pay for his prescriptions!

I bet that Nicola Sturgeon’s missing WhatsApp messages to her team were full of ‘what can we do to stuff Boris?’ as whatever we in England had imposed upon us, she did it with bells on north of the border. Some folk there regarded her as their caring ‘mammy’ looking after them. To no better outcome it seems. Did the SNP pay any more attention to their experts or was it a simple competition with Westminster?
Shame about the deleted WA messages - they might have been very revealing! Probably why they disappeared.

The Response to Covid was down to the Doctors and Specialists of SAGE the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies. The Government are not Medical Experts and just provided the Money.

The medical response would rightly be informed by the advice of the medical and scientific experts, Trurider1, but the government had much more than just the medical response to covid to consider. There were profound economic and social considerations, too. And, as we are discovering, the medical and scientific advice was not always followed.

If deaths are used as a measure Urmstongran, Scotland did do well compared with England and Wales.
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/16/what-do-we-know-about-people-who-died-covid-uk
The outcomes can be measured in many different ways of course, and a comparison between approaches will no doubt reveal successes and failures all round. I highly doubt though that the Scottish government saw elderly people as dispensable.

Maddyone
I remember your story. I’m so sorry that it panned out the way it has.
I have 2 stepdaughters with different health issues. They both got full support from us during lockdown. My family’s mental health is very important to me so there was no way rules were going to stop me maintaining that.

Ooh, timing ...

Just after my last post about WhatsApp messages from NS look what the Covid Inquiry had to say about them....
(Souce: today’s Telegraph)

“THE UK Covid Inquiry has “ridden a coach and horses” through Nicola Sturgeon’s claim she cannot disclose whether she deleted her WhatsApp messages from the pandemic because it is confidential.

Witness statements and other written documents and materials prepared for the inquiry must be kept under wraps until they are used in evidence.

But the inquiry confirmed that there were no other restrictions on what witnesses can say to the media about their actions during the pandemic.

This undermined the former first minister’s claim that she was not even allowed to state whether she had deleted her WhatsApps because it was part of her confidential evidence to the inquiry.

Humza Yousaf, the First Minister, and Kate Forbes, the former Scottish finance secretary, both confirmed this week they did not destroy their messages without reading directly from their written witness statements.

Douglas Ross, the Scottish Tory leader, said Ms Sturgeon’s “pathetic confidentiality defence lies in tatters” and urged her to come clean about whether she has deleted her messages.

The inquiry heard last week that “very few messages appear to have been retained” from key decision makers in Holyrood – despite UK ministers handing over similar material “in high volumes”.

Ms Sturgeon insisted this week she had “nothing to hide” but refused four times to state if she had destroyed her WhatsApps.”

Oh, and Simon Case hasn't yet come before the Inquiry, he's just gone off sick for an unspecified period...

Oh Urmstongran, I thought you actually meant it when you said,
'we should avoid the 'goady' comments alluding to perceived uncritical tribal political affiliations.'
And oh yes, let's all trust the unbiased Telegraph.

My brother died of Covid in hospital with no visitors allowed to be with him at the end apart from a sweet kind nurse who told my nephew she had held his hand and talked to him so you can imagine how we in his family feel listening to the statements made and foul language used. I feel sick I loved my brother he didn’t deserve to be used as a statistic.

Celieanne86, this is what it's all about. Hard to lose a brother. Devastating for it to happen this way. Sorry for your loss.

I am so angry. How dear he say we are of no consequence. All of us who have contributed in various ways over the years and deserve respect. Something in short supply amongst the Conservative Government. Their track record is appalling.

Again I would like this thread to stay en pointe as it were. The focus of the inquiry is the Westminster Government's handling of the pandemic and how to move forward. I started it commenting on the statements made regarding elderly people by Johnson and other conservative MPs as reported by mainstream media. Can we keep it relevant?

Not only government but a lot of the young public believed the same "why should we bother with the old they are going to die soon way". Heard that several times along with "well that will help speed the inheritance along". Absolutely terrible time.