Covid Inquiry

DiamondLily I'm really sorry to hear about your losses. Your story is replicated by many across the country. 💐

Re BJs so called skill set - the phrase bish bash bosh comes to mind...

MaizieD

^As I recall very little was done by government about 'Asian flu' under MacMillan. It was quite virulent and at one point over 20 pupils in my class were absent.^

Different times, Grantanow.

Interesting though:

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31201-0/fulltext

( I wasn't in your class, but I got it... I was only 7, I've never had flu since...)

Thanks for the Lancet reference which bears out that little was done by the government. As you say, different times. We expect better now.

Led By Donkeys has produced a new video based on evidence from the Covid Inquiry so far.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPbfryCAs0

I was just going to post this Maizie- just incredible. And still, some here say that Johnson was a Hero in the Covid crisis. Going it alone on the vaccine cost vast amounts of money- as the UK had to pay much more than the EU buying in bulk. And all in vain as people, and in particular our generation and older, were NOT protected- and just sent down the chute.

Just disgusting. I do hope many will watch this video, because it is all based on fact and real messages, not 'opinion'.

That is utterly depressing MaizieD. I really do hope the Stage 1 Covid Inquiry report is released before the election.

Apparently Lady Hallet is hoping to publish initial findings early ish next year.

COVID is just nature's way of dealing with old people

Although old people do succumb to disease and illness - inevitably - how can anyone read that and not be aware of the utter disregard, indifference and, yes - dehumanising contempt - for the older generation?

... old people are simply a nuisance factor to be 'dealt' with...

If you take that 'philosophy' to its logical conclusion - how does or did he feel about the vulnerable sick people, of any age, who were also more likely to be seriously ill, or die, from COVID - was that also nature's way of dealing with that burdensome demographic?

When you start dehumanising old people, it's a dangerous trajectory to go down. I think it's hideous.

Well, Boris is no spring chicken. He was over 50 when the pandemic struck. How would he have reacted, if te decision was not to admit him to hospital, there were so many younger people in need. He would just have to stay at No 10, tuck himself in bed, take paracetamol and hope for the best.

M0nica

Well, Boris is no spring chicken. He was over 50 when the pandemic struck. How would he have reacted, if te decision was not to admit him to hospital, there were so many younger people in need. He would just have to stay at No 10, tuck himself in bed, take paracetamol and hope for the best.

I thought similarly. However, I believe he sees himself as 'exclusive' - as one of his former tutors said of him, he thinks he should be free of the network of obligation that binds everyone.

The teacher also said Johnson believes it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception.

These observations were allegedly made by his classics master to Stanley Johnson in 1982, in a report. They've been aired frequently, but cut no ice with his (Johnson's) admirers who, I believe, will bend themselves out of shape in order to justify his behaviour. They firmly believe he was "doing his best".

He certainly was. Doing his best to get COVID off the front-pages so he could focus on GBD in order to placate his 'majority' who probably would've had his guts for garters if he'd 'betrayed' them by pausing the Brexit negotiations - a move suggested by the EU so that he could focus on the developing crisis of COVID. A sensible and logical move, but one that would have diminished his standing along the so-called red-wall. And he wasn't prepared to risk that for the sake of old people who should basically just have FOAD, graciously accepting their demise as part of "nature's" plan!

Doing your best doesn't mean doing it well. I am contributing to the thread on 'Clumsiness' I have dyspraxia, and there are a lot of things - like sewing or handwriting - that despite putting my best effort in the final result is not very good, in fact at times it is atrocious.

I think the difference between you and Johnson, MOnica is that you are aware of your difficulties but try your best to overcome them.

Listening to Mark Sedwill's (former Cabinet Secretary) evidence to the Inquiry and reading the transcript to make sure that I'd heard aright, it is evident that Johnson had to be practically forced into making decisions and Sedwill had to ensure that once he'd made a decision the mechanisms of government wouldn't let him change it at a whim.
I would copy and paste the relevant section but my ipad won't let me. It's on p30 of the transcript.

It's couched in civil service speak, but is very telling.

covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents/transcript-of-module-2-public-hearing-on-08-november-2023/

Anyone listening to Sir Patrick Vallance today? I know many of us realised how shambolic Johnson’s approach to the pandemic was but it seems it was even worse than we thought. Did he also say that Sunak said it was ok to let people die, too, or did I miss hear? It was always obvious that ‘eat out to help out’ was a ridiculous idea but then the economy was always more important to them than people’s lives.

I am left feeling sorry for Patrick Vallance, it must have been immensely frustrating being given no direction. He comes across in his evidence as very professional.

If you're on twitter, Maybee, this tweet has an extract from Vallance's note book in which he says that Dominic Cummings reported that 'Rishi thinks just let people die and that's OK'

Would that be what you heard?

twitter.com/Jc62Matildamog/status/1726627973531681084

I think that Vallance must be squirming to hear his private notes being read out (though I assume that he handed them over voluntarily). They are very damning.

And he did admit that even the scientists were a bit late on insisting on a lockdown...

Yes. Thank you. That is what I heard. I still think that Whitty and Vallance should have been more vocal about what was happening at the time. The only one with any * was Van Tam.

They’re all squirming now, trying to distance themselves from what happened and making themselves appear whiter than white.
I agree about Van Tam Maybee. I thought he had integrity at the time.

My GP Dad used to call Flu, 'the old man's friend'.

Aveline

My GP Dad used to call Flu, 'the old man's friend'.

It’s also the reason why older people were always scared to go into hospital. But I think there’s a huge difference between dying of pneumonia and dying from covid, especially at the start of the pandemic when so little was known about it.

maddyone

They’re all squirming now, trying to distance themselves from what happened and making themselves appear whiter than white.
I agree about Van Tam Maybee. I thought he had integrity at the time.

Vallance can hardly be distancing himself from his own notes; which he wrote up each day. I just thought that he might be finding it a bit embarrassing to have them read out.

What is also clear from those notes is that Johnson found it very hard to understand graphs and scientific terms, such as 'doubling'.... He couldn't hold on to information, either...

I don’t get the impression from what’s been said today that Vallance was trying to distance himself from his actions though? He was asked a lot of difficult questions and appeared to answer honestly, whether it put him in a good light or not. That can’t have been easy.

They asked him about his notes and said how he had handed them over instantly and willingly without amendments.
He said some opinions stood as when they were written, some thoughts he had revised and noted after later discussions and in some cases he later disagreed with himself. I thought it was very honest.

COVID is just nature's way of dealing with old people

I knew from the start that Boris was ignorant and incompetent about the matter. So I disregarded much of what he said. His so called advisors too.
I had been reading reports from various Chinese correspondents from Dec 2019 onwards.
It isnt called covid 19 for nothing.
I warned early, as many as would listen in real life
Boris didnt much act until beginning of March 2020. Weeks too late.

Just imagine how much worse it would have been if many of us hadn’t’ve taken our health into our own hands and locked down before we were told to.