Covid Inquiry

MayBee70

Am I right in thinking that this thread is now trying to justify the governments policy of letting people in care homes die of covid because they were old and probably wanted to die anyway?

No, I don’t think that’s what anyone is saying. They are saying that some very old/ill people do actually want to die because they’re tired of life and have had enough. That certainly doesn’t mean all old people, and in any case, it is as Dickens says, a separate issue from the Covid inquiry.

It’s interesting that whenever assisted dying is mentioned on Gransnet, pretty much everyone is for it, so people do accept that some people do actually want to die.

maddyone

It’s interesting that whenever assisted dying is mentioned on Gransnet, pretty much everyone is for it, so people do accept that some people do actually want to die.

But this has nothing to do with the covid inquiry, which is what this thread is about.

I look forward to Johnson's appearance at the inquiry. Also, those of you on here who watch GB news; what do you think of his getting a job with them? Will it stop you watching it knowing he would have happily let you die during the pandemic? Or, as you are happy to watch and listen to people such as Farage, JRM, and other such unsavoury characters, does the addition of another one not bother you?

Back to covid inquiry though; I think there is a case for whatever the public service equivalent of Corporate Manslaughter is.

Matt Hancock decided that if COVID ever reached the stage where the hospitals were being overwhelemed, he, and only he would decide which patients should be prioritised and which would have to wait or get no treatment.

Not the doctors, not what public opinion thought, just him, acting as if he was God!!!!!

And of course Hancock’s judgement is without equal.

You can see why Hancock is asking for immunity.

I didn’t know that Monica but what a ridiculous thing to say. As if he he could have personally overseen the treatment of each patient.
When I was in hospital with Covid in January 2021, I was in a position to observe the treatment of Covid patients myself. There was absolutely no one who was denied treatment of any kind in the hospital I was in. There was a young woman brought down from ICU and her bed placed opposite mine. She was profoundly disabled, unable to speak or eat, unable to move or do anything independently. That young woman was treated with utmost compassion and care by the staff and received all the same treatments that others were receiving. She even had the privilege of her family being allowed one visit, which no one else was allowed. Other Covid patients being treated in my room were dementia patients and very old patients, well over 80 years old. I was actually comparatively young at 67 years old at the time. These are facts as I saw them. I can’t speak for what happened in other hospitals or areas.

Just imagine that every evening when millions tuned in for the daily death figures and “next slide please” they told us what they were REALLY saying upstairs.

There is an article by Carl Heneghan in Spectator, published online today for the Saturday print edition, in which he spells out what questions the inquiry should be asking but, in his opinion, isn't.

Well worth a read imo.

gangy5

Yesterday's Testimony by Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara was really damning. It revealed the severe inefficiences within 10 Downing Street and spoke of the long term woeful workings of the civil service. I apologise for not including a link but it will be on iplayer as the BBC has been relaying it on the News Channel,
Gob smacking evidence - calmly delivered.

Ah yes. She’s the one who brought her karaoke machine to one of the parties. Hmm.

I think now they’re all just trying to cover their arses. ‘It wasn’t me guv’.

Urmstongran

gangy5

Yesterday's Testimony by Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara was really damning. It revealed the severe inefficiences within 10 Downing Street and spoke of the long term woeful workings of the civil service. I apologise for not including a link but it will be on iplayer as the BBC has been relaying it on the News Channel,
Gob smacking evidence - calmly delivered.

Ah yes. She’s the one who brought her karaoke machine to one of the parties. Hmm.

I think now they’re all just trying to cover their arses. ‘It wasn’t me guv’.

... I'm just sitting here imagining someone actually giving house room to a karaoke machine...

Dickens 🤣🤣

OK I will fess up we bought a karaoke machine 30 years ago, I am sure it’s in the darkest depths of the garage…

I agree Baggs it's an excellent article and is the point I was trying to make. A covid enquiry that worries about whether Cummings treated people badly is such a waste of an opportunity.

Hancock who wanted to play God over life and death was the one who claimed to have thrown a protective ring around care homes. If he is seeking immunity I wonder if he will get it?

I don’t see that anybody should get immunity regarding what they said. It’s understandable that some mistakes would be made in the circumstances at the time, but the circumstances don’t excuse unprofessional behaviour.

She was just relaxing after a hard day's work.

The Covid Inquiry is expressly not to find guilt or innocence but it's possible, I suppose, that there could be a criminal investigation after the Inquiry.

Thank you baggs for the link.

I hear what he is saying, although I think that his comment "The whole inquiry seems to be working on the premise that we should have locked down harder, sooner and longer – and that, if we had, Sars-CoV-2 would have melted away like snow" a loose exaggeration.

However I understand his frustration. I have been watching the enquiry on and off and it seems so very woolly with a desperate desire to give every niche group a voice, and to examine in tedious detail everything that went on in cabinet and how the decisions were made. I am less interested in that - we all know mistakes were made - we all know that some of these were made long before covid when emergency planning was too low on the agenda. I am interested in examining what worked and how we can use that knowledge to good effect in a future pandemic. Clearly some of those lessons are covid-specific, but there must be general rules, both scientific, economic and political/procedural that could be useful in future planning.

Instead of this public flogging - which is too late - I would like to see in-depth studies going on in private in labs, in statistical analysis, in political systems in the event of emergencies and how decision-making processes might be streamlined.

There needs to be some positive information, backed up by academic studies that will show us where things went wrong and what we might do best in the future.

We know the government was floundering around - and that their leader was not up to the task - we need to put that behind us and have some concrete decisions about how a pandemic might be better handled.

Excellent post Luckygirl.
In my opinion the inquiry is a complete waste of money that could be put to better use. Such as some of the possibilities Luckygirl mentions.
It’s just a rehash of what we already know.

Helen Macnamara gave evidence clearly and with an insight to what was happening in and outside Downing Street but she kept quiet about until now. She is as guilty as the rest of that unsavoury bunch in government. None of them are fit to lick the boots of any man in the street.

decision making process could be more streamlined
Patrick Grant ( and business associates) offered their services to make PPE. He had the whole plan worked out.
He and the other businesses would cut out the pieces and distribute them round the country for amateur seamstresses to make up.
He had to speak and meet with 4 different departments.
The final answer was, no, it can’t be done because as it’s a government contract every sewer would have to have a health and safety check 😡
He told them they had lost their minds.
He had this idea after witnessing the hospital where his father died had no PPE.😡😡

Helen MacNamara paid her fine. Being implicated in the Downing Street culture does not imo diminish the power of her evidence
The way female members of staff were sidelined and dismissed is shocking. The way Cummings wrote about HMac on WhatsApp disgusting

Luckygirl3

Thank you baggs for the link.

I hear what he is saying, although I think that his comment "The whole inquiry seems to be working on the premise that we should have locked down harder, sooner and longer – and that, if we had, Sars-CoV-2 would have melted away like snow" a loose exaggeration.

However I understand his frustration. I have been watching the enquiry on and off and it seems so very woolly with a desperate desire to give every niche group a voice, and to examine in tedious detail everything that went on in cabinet and how the decisions were made. I am less interested in that - we all know mistakes were made - we all know that some of these were made long before covid when emergency planning was too low on the agenda. I am interested in examining what worked and how we can use that knowledge to good effect in a future pandemic. Clearly some of those lessons are covid-specific, but there must be general rules, both scientific, economic and political/procedural that could be useful in future planning.

Instead of this public flogging - which is too late - I would like to see in-depth studies going on in private in labs, in statistical analysis, in political systems in the event of emergencies and how decision-making processes might be streamlined.

There needs to be some positive information, backed up by academic studies that will show us where things went wrong and what we might do best in the future.

We know the government was floundering around - and that their leader was not up to the task - we need to put that behind us and have some concrete decisions about how a pandemic might be better handled.

I think we need to figure out how to prevent someone totally inadequate for the job becoming prime minister. Especially given that we then ended up with Liz Truss!