Covid Inquiry

I know in recent times he’s gone very anti vacc/conspiracy theorist but, for the first year or so of the pandemic I think Dr John Campbell’s advice protected and saved a lot of people. I listened to his blog every evening to find out where we were vaccine wise etc and listened to the reports from people in other countries. It was because of him that we were aware of what was happening in China and prepared ourselves for what we could see coming.

There is so much to be said but if nothing else, Johnson's comments about letting the old die (reported everywhere except the DM) must be a wake up call to the grey haired Tory hinterland in the Shires and deserves to be could well be the kiss of death for the party

I very much agree with GSM’s comments.

Some old people just exist, no other word for it, kept alive by medication.

Galaxy Judgments on age alone are never going to be acceptable. Pandemic viruses like COVID affect different age groups.

The Spanish flu pandemic at the end of the 1910's affected mainly those in their prime 20 -50, old people were far less affected. With COVID, its 'target' age group was the elderly. Younger people got it, but unless they had specific vulnerabilities, were unlikely to get it severely or die. With children fatalities were even fewer.

Since it was older people who were mostly affected, and 'older' seemed to mean over 60, which includes many people still at work, also most of the volunteers who are the mainstay of the charity sector and people who otherwise had a potential remaining life of 30 years or more, the idea that we were all expendable is, to put it mildly, offensive.

Any COVID strategy should have concentrated on protecting older people because they were most at risk.

Excess deaths were higher than usual in 2022. The impact on children and other vulnerable groups has been considerable. There are consequences for any decisions made. As I say I was a supporter of lockdowns but I dont think I would be now. And obviously some of it (exercise once a day) was we can seen now counter productive.

Freya5
You’ve obviously never worked in care homes. If you had you would have heard many residents say they just want to go to sleep and not wake up, why? they are tired 😥

I am just not interested in a covid enquiry that shows me that the Johnson government was dysfunctional and morally bankrupt, oh and did a lot of swearing. I knew that. We all knew that, even those who may still support him knew about his 'skill set'. There are really important issues to be dealt with and yes I agree with Dickens they should not be dealt with in the middle of a crisis . So there needs to be an opportunity to look at lockdowns etc without people getting defensive, but I suppose we have to get this out of the way first.

The confirmation of the heavy drinking, total lack of social distancing in Downing Street has me wondering how high the prevalence of covid was amongst staff. We know Johnson was infected after his daft comments about meeting and shaking hands with covid patients but how many others at number 10?

I am assuming that the positive side to all this is to learn lessons on how to deal properly with a crises.

At the moment it is a huge lesson on how not to deal with a crises.

MerylStreep

Freya5
You’ve obviously never worked in care homes. If you had you would have heard many residents say they just want to go to sleep and not wake up, why? they are tired 😥

I have heard people say that when life becomes a struggle.

It’s important to acknowledge, not everyone wants to have life extended when in fact, it’s a life only kept going by machines and medical interventions. Pneumonia wasn’t known as the old man’s friend for no reason

Iam64

The confirmation of the heavy drinking, total lack of social distancing in Downing Street has me wondering how high the prevalence of covid was amongst staff. We know Johnson was infected after his daft comments about meeting and shaking hands with covid patients but how many others at number 10?

Didn’t quite a lot of ministers all have Covid more or less at once? I seem to remember they did. The staff who weren’t in the headlines must have been going down like flies at that time as well I imagine.

Germanshepherdsmum
I have never supported Johnson, though I am a Conservative voter and am likely to remain so.

Younger people should, imo, take priority over the old when it comes to life-saving procedures if there is a choice to be made.

From the Enqiry
On Monday, the inquiry heard that Mr Johnson had, according to a note read from the diary of a former private secretary, asked why the economy was being destroyed “for people who will die anyway soon”, in the days before the country went into lockdown.

Although some now declare no support for Johnson, those who have supported and do support this government have also supported this 'wealth for the individual' driven Conservative Party and have given them the opportunity to carry out this Parties views.

I would like to hear more from the enquiry about any views expressed by this government about the young, the poor and the disabled during Covid too. There is a very big difference in not stressfully treating an elderly dying person and allowing a virus to kill off huge tranches of our older and frailer population.

Yes, this government did try to keep businesses viable in some cases but that still chimes with the "wealth is power, wealth is success" views of the authoritarian party running the country. On the flip side it also had a catastrophic effect with the Eat Out to Help Out campaign.

If we clarify which sort of Conservative Party we had and have at least people will know what they are voting for next time.

It was not only a matter of ‘keeping businesses viable’, without furlough payments what would the employees have done?

Germanshepherdsmum

It was not only a matter of ‘keeping businesses viable’, without furlough payments what would the employees have done?

Yes indeed.

Iam64

The confirmation of the heavy drinking, total lack of social distancing in Downing Street has me wondering how high the prevalence of covid was amongst staff. We know Johnson was infected after his daft comments about meeting and shaking hands with covid patients but how many others at number 10?

Quite honestly my thoughts are as they were all working together drinking or social distancing would have little effect to wether they caught covid or not.
Not that it excuses any rule breaking but many of the 'rules' were plain daft in the first place.

Yesterday's Testimony by Deputy Cabinet Secretary Helen MacNamara was really damning. It revealed the severe inefficiences within 10 Downing Street and spoke of the long term woeful workings of the civil service. I apologise for not including a link but it will be on iplayer as the BBC has been relaying it on the News Channel,
Gob smacking evidence - calmly delivered.

MerylStreep

Freya5
You’ve obviously never worked in care homes. If you had you would have heard many residents say they just want to go to sleep and not wake up, why? they are tired 😥

But this is a separate issue - isn't it?

Elderly and sick people in care homes - or indeed, stuck in a hospital bed - "blocking" it - who are being kept alive through various interventions when they'd prefer to just be left alone to go to sleep permanently, is something we should be debating irrespective of COVID.

Boris Johnson referred to "old people" - as MOnica says this probably refers to anyone over the age of 60 quite a number of whom are still in work - I didn't officially retire until 68 and continued to work free-lance until I stopped completely at age 78! Such "old people" are a completely different kettle of fish to those you are referring to... but Johnson just lumped them, unscientifically, all together as "old people" who should basically accept their fate by, presumably, not being treated for a COVID infection if they were unlucky enough to get it as the virus was "nature's" way of getting rid of us!

Johnson was simply not up to the job of dealing with the crisis and floundered around looking for ways to get it out of the way of his main pre-occupation which was Brexit and his own personal advancement built on the back of Brexit. Hence old people being basically recommended to FOAD!

I am in favour of 'assisted dying' for those of us who don't want to spend months or years lying miserably, half conscious in a care-home bed... but again, that's a separate matter.

Am I right in thinking that this thread is now trying to justify the governments policy of letting people in care homes die of covid because they were old and probably wanted to die anyway?

Germanshepherdsmum

It was not only a matter of ‘keeping businesses viable’, without furlough payments what would the employees have done?

I simply don't believe the main reason why they chose to support the workforce was for the sake of the workers. Neither Sunak - who is playing that card for all he is worth - nor Johnson or most of the cabinet members have that bone in their body.

If it walks like a duck, etc. In this government of the entitled they are much more likely to have been thinking if their own coffers than of working people. They may treat the workforce badly but they would stay short of killing it off.

MayBee70

Am I right in thinking that this thread is now trying to justify the governments policy of letting people in care homes die of covid because they were old and probably wanted to die anyway?

Some MayBee, only some.

MayBee70

Am I right in thinking that this thread is now trying to justify the governments policy of letting people in care homes die of covid because they were old and probably wanted to die anyway?

Seems that way

I didn't get that feeling from the thread at all. There was concern early on that it was perhaps one sided. Now the other side are airing their views. Debate is good, so feel free to argue

Covid Inquiry...personal tragedies, national disgrace, international embarrassment. Yes, I know there are terrible events happening just now around the globe, but these shocking disclosures will be noted.

MayBee70

Am I right in thinking that this thread is now trying to justify the governments policy of letting people in care homes die of covid because they were old and probably wanted to die anyway?

That's the feeling I'm getting, MayBee and I think it is derailing the thread.

I'll just repeat what I said earlier. If I have to be a human sacrifice I'd rather it were my choice, not imposed on me by the government.