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Homelessness is a lifestyle choice according to Suella!

(188 Posts)
CvD66 Sun 05-Nov-23 12:26:17

Under this Tory period in power, homelessness has increased by 75% (271k in Jan 2023 according to Shelter) due in part to high rents and other costs of living, reduced mental and social service support and other Tory cuts. Our beloved Home Sec has decided homelessness is a lifestyle choice. In addition to her natural callousness, she now intends to prevent charities from giving tents to homeless people. Has this woman no grams of human kindness?
Notably under the last Labour government, homeless figures fell from just over 100k to 50k

Stormystar Tue 07-Nov-23 18:17:42

There are many many tents now in Embankment Gardens by Whitehall, it’s become a drug haven, the police are not allowed to enter the tents without a warrant. As a consequence the dealers are able to sell their drugs with impunity, so it’s become a magnet for addicts and those with mental health issues. Today a woman wandered out of the park without any clothes on below her waist, she was battered and bruised and clearly had mental health issues, heartbreaking, God alone knows what’s going on inside the tents. But something needs to be done, about the violence the drug dealing/taking and the prostitution.

Stormystar Tue 07-Nov-23 18:20:56

My point is allowing the tents is escalating not addressing the dire situation of homelessness in a very negative way.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 07-Nov-23 18:22:30

This is what so many people who comment here,nor take part in polls, don’t see. This is the reality of allowing tents to be pitched. I’m very glad that I no longer work in London.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Nov-23 18:31:50

Germanshepherdsmum

This is what so many people who comment here,nor take part in polls, don’t see. This is the reality of allowing tents to be pitched. I’m very glad that I no longer work in London.

Tents don’t cause the issues 😄. That young woman would have mental health issue without a tent.

It would be much better if Braverman was calling for action to tackle the issues of homelessness.

But she prefers to cause division and hate for her own agenda.

Just as she is whipping up hate and division over Armistice Sunday.

We already have Tommy Robinson parroting her words - there is a high likelihood that there will be trouble, and this can be laid entirely at Bravermans door.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 07-Nov-23 18:39:07

Tents allow criminal activities to take place out of sight and make it more difficult for people such as this woman to be seen.

Casdon Tue 07-Nov-23 18:45:59

Germanshepherdsmum

We shall have to await the new draft legislation that the tents could be snuck into. It might not actually mention tents at all but still cover her proposals.

It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen in the current parliamentary legislation.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67344806
The way I read it is that she promoted her idea without it being discussed in advance with her cabinet colleagues, who haven’t endorsed it. It will be considered, but won’t be legislated, so won’t happen.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 07-Nov-23 19:01:26

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

We shall have to await the new draft legislation that the tents could be snuck into. It might not actually mention tents at all but still cover her proposals.

It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen in the current parliamentary legislation.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67344806
The way I read it is that she promoted her idea without it being discussed in advance with her cabinet colleagues, who haven’t endorsed it. It will be considered, but won’t be legislated, so won’t happen.

Yes

Stormystar Tue 07-Nov-23 19:04:33

Yes The tents provide a space for drug taking /dealing sexual abuse to take place without police interference. So much money exchanges hands they become a magnet for crime. Tragically for many addicts it is a lifestyle choice because no one can support an addict if they don’t want help, and their needs are met on the streets.

foxie48 Tue 07-Nov-23 19:11:31

If you have been not been touched by mental health problems, addiction or homelessness, then I think you are very lucky. I, like many others, have seen how easily a life can spiral out of control and I think it's made me so much more aware that people need help, not punishment. Actually, there's not a lot of help around and sadly the people who need help are not good advocates for themselves. Regardless of what some may think, no one chooses to have a mental illness, no one chooses to have an addiction and no one chooses to have no home. If you think they do, then I think you should seriously question your own mental health. Sorry to be so blunt but it's what I genuinely feel.

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 07-Nov-23 20:02:59

As someone who has had mental health problems for many years, I understand more than you may think. No, I didn’t choose to have mental ill health but I took responsibility for it and continue to do so.

foxie48 Tue 07-Nov-23 20:43:41

Germanshepherdsmum

As someone who has had mental health problems for many years, I understand more than you may think. No, I didn’t choose to have mental ill health but I took responsibility for it and continue to do so.

And thank goodness, most people with mental health problems are able to do what you did, but some can't and that is why a caring society should have a safety net.

MayBee70 Tue 07-Nov-23 21:37:17

Germanshepherdsmum

As someone who has had mental health problems for many years, I understand more than you may think. No, I didn’t choose to have mental ill health but I took responsibility for it and continue to do so.

Would you have been able to deal with your problems if you came from the lowest echelon of society, though? Or if you weren’t academically intelligent?

Germanshepherdsmum Tue 07-Nov-23 21:54:53

It was quite simply a matter of having to do so in order to keep my job and look after my child. There was no choice.

Casdon Tue 07-Nov-23 22:45:56

Tomorrow’s i headline.
According to Sky News the i says Suella Braverman's attempt to ban tents used by homeless people was not cleared by the prime minister and left Downing Street officials blindsided.

Vintagewhine Wed 08-Nov-23 07:25:09

She's a loose cannon and although not a conservative supporter I'm relieved that she's not representative of mainstream conservatives. Her lack of empathy and willingness to appeal to the worst in people makes her unfit to be an MP let alone Home Secretary.

Iam64 Wed 08-Nov-23 08:50:26

MayBee70, I’m aware gsm can defend herself. My response to your question to her on whether she’d have been able to ‘deal with her problems’ if she’d ‘come from the lowest echelons of society or not been academically intelligent’ reminded me of working with the kind of people you describe, who had mental health problems. I was impressed by the way some families and individuals managed in difficult circumstances. A level of determination, recognition of the return of voices, or suicidal thoughts, energy levels plummeting or increasing dangerously often led to a phone call asking for help.
We were a well established community team who had established relationships with service users and other agencies. Sadly this is much less likely today

Iam64 Wed 08-Nov-23 08:51:52

As for Suella - bring back heseltine, Clarke and co. The current crop of heartless right wingers are a menace

foxie48 Wed 08-Nov-23 09:23:40

Unfortunately, a good education and a supportive and caring middle class family doesn't protect everyone from mental illness or the psychotic episodes that can be a feature of that illness, sadly neither are the responsibilities of children enough to keep some people sane. Mental health services in most parts of the country are completely overstretched, going private is an extremely expensive option which is out of the reach of most families (however desperate they are to find help) and for many people with serious mental health illnesses, there's no cure or magic medicine. It can be the cruelest type of illness to have as it robs people of their employment, their relationships, their home and security and often their hope for the future. Many people have mental health problems during their life but most recover, very sadly there are those who don't. It is these who are over represented in prisons, homeless, alcoholic or addicted to drugs or appearing in A&E in hospitals. Our Mental health services are a National scandal, care in the community is non existent and obtaining in hospital care often only happens when someone is sectioned.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 08-Nov-23 09:30:34

foxie48 I echo your post mental health along with additions doesn’t differentiate between princes or paupers.

A supportive family can only do so much, sometimes the person with the issues just will not accept help until they are at absolute zero and unfortunately it is often too late.

TerriBull Wed 08-Nov-23 10:07:44

I perceive the "homelessness" problem isn't only with us in Britain, much of the western world is beset with it at the moment, particularly the US, where some of its cities have become veritable "no go" areas, in particular San Francisco which would have been considered one of their showcase cities. From what I read, there are a myriad of reasons why this is so, The US is in the midst of a dire opiate crisis, and there is a school of thought that much of this has been orchestrated by big pharma. Unfortunately, where they lead we often follow. So wading through pavement deep people, sprawled out off their faces often makes it untenable for businesses to carry on trading in those areas, couple that with the fact that there is a very lax attitude to shoplifting, no prosecutions under $1,000 dollars in many places, which again means retailers can't take those sort of hits when they are continually seeing their stocks being lifted without any recourse to the law. I think it's possible that an individual could go into one of these tent cities without addictions or mental health problems but end up like many of those around them, because one will feed the other. Possibly part of Suella Braverman's rationale in not handing out tents, I don't know, I don't support her extreme stances on many issues I might add, just in case that is construed that I do. I do wonder how many prominent American cities will become ghost towns before their government decides to act. I think it sets a dangerous precedent to slip into a state of lawlessness and it only illustrates the widening gulf between the haves and the have nots. I'm reading a book set in The dust bowls of America during the time of the Great Depression where so many were living itinerant subsistence existences and sometimes I think we could be forgiven in thinking that one of the worlds most developed nations are regressing back to those times sad

Of course like here, and everywhere in the developed world, it would seem it's the same old story, unaffordable rents, wages too low to afford what's on offer, a general lack of housing stock. As I said not just here in Britain, but in all sorts of places, Canada and Australia, who'd have thought, big countries, lots of space to build one would would assume. Add to that mass migration, which I'm not trying to construe in a negative sense, people always have and always will move around the world for better conditions, my family certainly did! However, when maybe a small country such as Britain adds 5 million or so to the population, then its already inadequate housing stock is going to be greatly affected, and many of those people pile into the already over crowded south east, where even if you go out into the 50 mile radius around London, it's still unaffordable! Into that mix, can be added the fact that families don't always stay together in the way they did in past times and when the nuclear family splits, another home has to be found. Previously, I imagine couples would possibly just front out impossible relationships until they could release themselves once the kids had grown and flown the nest

Suffice to say a myriad of complex situations that pertain to homelessness. Shelter is one of a handful of charities I support. When I read how much money we throw at the United Nations for example, my thoughts were "I wish that money could be directed into subsidised housing instead of being wasted, but sadly I know it doesn't work like that.

Germanshepherdsmum Wed 08-Nov-23 10:30:29

Good post Terribull.

Dickens Wed 08-Nov-23 11:46:04

A good observation Terribull.

And you're right. the problem of homelessness is not specific to Britain.

When I lived in affluent Norway - it was evident they also had a problem similarly. Obviously, not on the same scale, nevertheless, the reasons for it were much the same as ours, insecure housing, poverty (in spite of a comprehensive welfare system) and addiction coupled with mental health problems.

I don't think removing the tents will do much to solve the problems. No-one wants 'tent cities' within their boundaries, but without the tents, won't there just be homeless people sprawled on the pavements etc on various bits of bedding, blankets and cardboard? The homeless won't just disappear, they have to 'live' somewhere and will simply go back to what they did before the tents became an option... shop doorways, alleyways, pavements, etc, etc.

Hostels won't take in addicts - and do the addicts even want to be in hostels anyway, so I appreciate it's a heck of a problem for any government to solve. But I don't think SB has chosen a particularly helpful way of beginning to deal with it.

It's a problem all over Europe so it might be a good idea to see what other countries are doing to deal with it. I know in Denmark they are using steel shipping containers as temporary housing modules, with outside 'community' areas. Which is probably one working solution... but what do you do if the homeless individuals are disruptive addicts? Such encampments would soon become problem areas.

JaneJudge Wed 08-Nov-23 17:20:29

I like your post too TerriBull.

I have often wondered why we can't build non standard construction building to house people? Pre fabs used to be really common and some still stand the test of time that were built after the war. What about these wooden lodges too? so much cheaper to construct but warm, habitable buildings. Why do we not look at alternatives with respect to building homes?

Kamiso Wed 08-Nov-23 17:23:01

GrannyGravy13

I think the main problem is that the majority of hostels and/or temporary accommodation will not allow those with alcohol or drug addictions in. If these troubled souls could and indeed want to access help for their addictions it is a step in the right direction.

People with addictions have to want to be helped, it is impossible to help an addict if they are unwilling, whether they be on the pavement or in a mansion.

I have read more than just the headline , what she implied was that we shouldn’t allow tent cities to pop up in and around our major cities. This is not an unreasonable want in the 21st Century.

Glad to see some common sense being applied.

Casdon Wed 08-Nov-23 17:36:25

There was an interesting article in the Big Issue last week about homelessness, with some focus on solutions for rough sleepers. The Finnish model is successful, it just needs the commitment of successive governments to implement it in the UK.
www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-people-are-homeless-in-the-uk-and-what-can-you-do-about-it/