Free Speech

Oreo

Where is the proof for all your assertions about what’s going on in Israel Fleurpepper as you are making the sort of statements that are often found to be completely false and doing the rounds of social media.
We all need to be mindful that hamas has a powerful presence on the Internet to spread lies.

How dare you accuse my true friends, Israeli Jews, in touch with many many other Israeli Jews on the ground- to be spreading Hamas lies.

They are truly scared and are in daily, hourly touch with close family, ex colleagues and friends who oppose Netanyahu- at great risk, in Israel.

Germanshepherdsmum

I do like to see the provenance of quotes and make up my own mind about their veracity.

Why do you think my friends have asked to share their posts anonymously? Do you really think they want me to give your their names and addresses, in the current circumstances. Really.

I’m afraid your friends’ messages can’t be verified. I doubt many of us take notice of quotes which lack provenance.

I know nothing about Fleurpepper’s assertions, but I do know that Jews all around Britain are terrified because of the massive number of antisemitic incidents that are happening every day. The police have reported that there have been thousands.

GSM even when provenance is provided, truth is still hard to establish I find.

Both sides are terrified. Those who were under attack first and those on both sides who are under attack now.
Then there are those who are terrified by the huge numbers who are massing in protest, unworried about the collateral fear that their gatherings are causing.

It’s a nightmare and I don’t know the answer. It started with the murderous attacks on innocent people on October 7th.

Galaxy

No I support the woman who was praying and received a police apology.
You have made quite an accusation there would you like to retract before I report.

So now any one who wants to protest can say they are praying.

The woman knew there was a protection area, it was a good publicity stunt.

Very true ronib.

I think it's an attack on free speech when stating a biological fact that would have been a common belief a while ago, but we are living in increasingly illiberal times and thatv is now seen as some sort of hate crime and the person/people who do so are reviled and no platformed.

Similarly if invited to comment as a customer/client on a corporate body and those observations/criticisms aren't in accordance with their so called ethos or what they the company endorses which quit often has no bearing on what their actual role is, and one gets "black listed" that could be deemed as a withdrawal of free speech. We should, without expressing hatred, be allowed to make a judgement or raise concerns on practices that may affect our own safety for example.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m afraid your friends’ messages can’t be verified. I doubt many of us take notice of quotes which lack provenance.

That is the very nature of suppression of freedom. Many Germans, possibly the majority, were against Hitler's treatment of Jews, and did not want to serve in the Party. If they chose not to join up, and even criticised him, opposed him- then they knew there would be severe consequences. Many didn't care about what happened to them, but knew their family would suffer too. (did you ever read or watch 'The Book Thief' - as a good example).

From my friend again :

''And it's no coincidence that it happened yesterday, because the day before yesterday the Supreme Court approved the police to completely ban demonstrations in Arab cities in Israel now against the war, overwhelmingly.

In Jewish cities we are still allowed ostensibly to demonstrate but the police dispersed violence, beating, the Sohar demonstration in the center of Jerusalem. They are taking away our most basic civil rights, our freedom of speech. Mainly for Arabs, there are endless funny/horrifying examples from the past month, but also for Jews trying to make voices of opposition. They fire people here on the right and on the left because someone didn't like their picture on Facebook - for example the teacher who was arrested for uploading a picture of herself five years ago with a scarf in the colors of the Palestinian flag.

And who will not take away freedom of speech? For those who cried until a month ago "democracy, democracy" but now when we really, really, are significantly violating the democratic rights we had, they are actually busy executing the government's right wing agenda. There is the hard right that uploads photos of traitors to the networks and calls to prosecute them, beat them and sack them from their job,,

Translated from Hebrew- so English a bit strange.

That is the very nature of suppression of freedom.
Being told you must/should accept someone’s version of the truth or something we do not know to be true is exactly that.
In the same way, we are told we should accept a friend’s speech or we are denying freedom of speech,
when we see being obliged to accept a friend’s speech as a curtailment of our freedom of speech.

Exactly Molly. We have no way of knowing who the friend is or whether they or the person posting their alleged words have an agenda. If it wouldn’t be accepted as evidence in court I take no notice of it.

You do realise that we are not in a normal situation here? And that any Israeli, back by the new Law', would be at real risk if name given.

Just as anyone who opposed Hitler and the Party in Germany would have been. All designed for you and others to say 'I take no notice' - that is the whole point. And it works, of course.

If you want proof of what’s happening watch Aljazeera live stream from Gaza every day.

Genocide.

Molly, I have not asked you, or anyone else, of accepting anything at all. My friend, and so many like her - are scared of reprisals, for themselves, and for their family still in Israel. Real fears- backed by Netanyahu's new laws which give him and the army and police. to arrest anyone criticising him, the Government, and their policy and bombings. Or to even quietly show photos of the bombing and of the thousands of dead, including the children.

Ah Grany - Aljazeera - they are of course not telling the truth, are they? (they will say ...).

Why do you post these transcripts of alleged messages from unknown people when we don’t accept unsubstantiated messages and can do nothing whatsoever about the current situation? Send them to the PM if you must.

Glad to hear that FP.

Germanshepherdsmum

Why do you post these transcripts of alleged messages from unknown people when we don’t accept unsubstantiated messages and can do nothing whatsoever about the current situation? Send them to the PM if you must.

Calling those messages 'alleged' is incredibly insulting, you must know that. To them, and to me- but I truly don't care.

Why? Because they asked me to- because they are scared and being silenced. they ask because they said 'it is important that people out there know that it is happening'.

The fact they have to ask, and have to do this anomymously for fear of reprisals on their families back in Israel- says it all.

Just as any German would have been scared to denounce and oppose then- and many wars before and since. In WW1- they were just shot.

Fleurpepper

You do realise that we are not in a normal situation here? And that any Israeli, back by the new Law', would be at real risk if name given.

Just as anyone who opposed Hitler and the Party in Germany would have been. All designed for you and others to say 'I take no notice' - that is the whole point. And it works, of course.

Comparisons with Nazi Germany and Israel are incredibly anti-Semitic but a few posters don’t get this, do they?

We can’t take open letters, or those entitled ‘spread the word’ and so on from unverified sources as the truth.

Of couse Aljazzera is entirely unbiased it’s paid for by Qatar who also fund Hamas, just who believes that propaganda?. All those babies allegedly taken out of incubators and lined up for the cameras, the lights were still on there was a fan running in the background, they had got power.
There are undoubtedly civilian casualties but they are being exaggerated by Hamas in an attempt to force Israel to stop due to international opinion.

Oreo

Fleurpepper

You do realise that we are not in a normal situation here? And that any Israeli, back by the new Law', would be at real risk if name given.

Just as anyone who opposed Hitler and the Party in Germany would have been. All designed for you and others to say 'I take no notice' - that is the whole point. And it works, of course.

Comparisons with Nazi Germany and Israel are incredibly anti-Semitic but a few posters don’t get this, do they?

We can’t take open letters, or those entitled ‘spread the word’ and so on from unverified sources as the truth.

There is NO comparison between the two in my post. NONE.

It was the most poignant example known to all.

That is the very nature of suppression of freedom. Many Germans, possibly the majority, were against Hitler's treatment of Jews, and did not want to serve in the Party. If they chose not to join up, and even criticised him, opposed him- then they knew there would be severe consequences. Many didn't care about what happened to them, but knew their family would suffer too

What qualifies you to lecture to us about what happened in Germany in the Nazi period?
Why do,you think you know more about it than those whose families lived through this time?
Or is it just too tempting to lecture ?

Fleurpepper
Perhaps we might believe this information you post, if, and it’s a big if, you could post actual news agencies who surely must have got a sniff of what your friends are accusing the Israeli government of.
Why would it even cross your mind that we are just going to believe the serious accusations you are posting.