The Supreme Court has ruled the Rwanda deportations are illegal

4allweknow

They are not all young single men, some leave wives and children behind. I wonder how they exist. What I find difficult to reconcile is, having travelled many miles sometimes taking months, to reach a "safe" country why do these people not apply for refugee status in the first safe country they reach. Or do many know they won't be regarded as a refugee but an immigrant. Surely if you are desperate for safety then anywhere in EU would be safe. Application to move to UK could then follow as an official immigrant. Why do they take the risk, pay thousands of pounds to be smuggled across the channel. All the Travelodge type places in my area are full of young male migrants. Housing list has a 6 year waiting list as it is.

Please explain what you mean. Do you know the definitions of "refugee" and "immigrant"?

I have read what was said. Any asylum seekers found not to be bono fide are deported. You cannot generalise that every asylum seeker is an economic migrant because the government tells you so. Where is the evidence to rely on this sweeping statement?

growstuff

missdeke

Germanshepherdsmum

It is indeed untenable. The result of a challenge to the government’s plan to house up to 1700 male asylum seekers in a disused air base in rural Essex is currently awaited.

The SC said that in principle sending asylum seekers to a safe third country is not unlawful, they simply didn’t consider that Rwanda fitted the bill, so maybe a deal will be done with another country.

The migrants were demonstrating outside the base this week. They are saying that they don't have enough suitable food, clothes or blankets and nothing to do. Some of them have only flip flops to wear on their feet. They are only saying what local residents have said all along, wrong plan, wrong place. James Cleverly is the local MP and now he is the Home Secretary, he has agreed with local concern about the place, I wonder if he will change his tune now??? There are currently about 500 migrants housed at the base.

I would imagine he's going to have to think up some smart answer to this.

BTW The reason locals (who don't appear to mind living in the middle of nowhere) are peeved is because they're frightened about the value of their homes. The local council was planning to sell the site off for development of houses for people who don't mind living in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, it's not going to be in the middle of nowhere for long because the local council is planning hundreds of thousands of new homes not far from the site, so there's going to be a fairly substantial new town fairly soon.

A bit of a sweeping statement about the price of houses. If you checked it out you will find that locals are doing what they can, they are giving free English lessons and providing what they can for the migrants. And where have you got the information about 100s of 1000s of house being built here, please show me the data.

They are not all young single men, some leave wives and children behind. I wonder how they exist. What I find difficult to reconcile is, having travelled many miles sometimes taking months, to reach a "safe" country why do these people not apply for refugee status in the first safe country they reach. Or do many know they won't be regarded as a refugee but an immigrant. Surely if you are desperate for safety then anywhere in EU would be safe. Application to move to UK could then follow as an official immigrant. Why do they take the risk, pay thousands of pounds to be smuggled across the channel. All the Travelodge type places in my area are full of young male migrants. Housing list has a 6 year waiting list as it is.

👏👏👏

Lots of comments, but many have a fundamental misunderstanding. The vast majority of those reaching here are NOT 'refugees' - they are economic migrants.

The assorted groups who want to let everyone in refuse to call them anything but 'refugees', and it's just grossly misleading.

When asked "if you really want to let everyone in, just WHAT is the realistic number we could accept" (given our own well publicised problems - more food banks anyone?!) they cannot answer.

When challenged with "and if you actually want to admit 2 or 3 hundred thousand such people, where would they go?" - they say "lots of room, look at a map".

BUT -- when challenged with "fine, maybe the UK isn't quite as crowded as many think" (our population density is higher than most of Europe though), and re land use, "yes, we could indeed concrete it over, whole new towns for migrants. JUST THINK how popular that would be with voters all round the country . . .care to stand as an MP on that platform??" - the proposers of unlimited immigration tend to go very quiet.

NB :- As I understand the figures, actual GENUINE refugees have a very good acceptance rate -- it just takes quite a while to process them as there have to be checks, unless anyone wants to admit a couple more ISIL terrorists without too many questions?

Perhaps you should read again what sandelf said Lettie. The particular people to whom she refers, who she herself says are economic migrants,

You can’t make any assumptions that they are ‘economic migrants’ until the decision making process has been undertaken. This government deliberately delays the ‘processing’ for the purposes of whipping up hatred against these refugees. The real reason for doing this is to remove us from European Charter for Human Rights. The refugees did not tank the economy and get us into the economic mess we are in; the government managed to do that all by themselves

I’m not sure you do fully understand the decision Cornishgreenhouse. The Supreme Court did not rule against exporting asylum seekers to a safe third country. There were aspects of Ruanda which they considered didn’t fit that description. They did not say that asylum seekers must not be sent elsewhere.

Sorry the above was meant in reply to German shepherdsmum who felt I might not have understood fully.

JdotJ

Interestingly I see that Finland has closed its borders to asylum seekers.

They have closed 4 out of 8. Finland borders Russia. They say Putin is encouraging the migrants to destabilise the West. The border crossings that have been closed (till spring) are the ones nearest the most heavily populated areas.

Several EU countries are becoming dissatisfied with the concept of Schengen. Italy and Germany being two.

I think I do; just because have a different opinion to you doesn’t mean I don’t understand what is being discussed.

Germanshepherdsmum

If I was one of these allegedly desperate people who had reached a safe country and wanted to stay there I believe I would be grateful for what I was given and not whinge about it growstuff.

Well, maybe an experiment could be arranged.

growstuff

Actually, you obviously are having a laugh! Do you honestly think the hotels where asylum seekers have been accommodated are 4 or 5 star? Have you seen them?

And the money is coming from the overseas aid budget and the hotel owners are getting the money that should be going to third world countries. Mind you, David Cameron is going to tweak that.

If I was one of these allegedly desperate people who had reached a safe country and wanted to stay there I believe I would be grateful for what I was given and not whinge about it growstuff.

Actually, you obviously are having a laugh! Do you honestly think the hotels where asylum seekers have been accommodated are 4 or 5 star? Have you seen them?

Nannashirlz

lol some of you make me laugh these young fighting age men are coming here for our soft touch our 5/4 star hotels and are a burden on our nhs schools and houses. If they were in so much fear they wouldn’t travel through so many countries to get here and yes you going to say got family here because they are all cousins of cousins and now they marching on our streets singing from the river to the sea. When will some of you wake up and our country is getting destroyed

Why does that make you laugh?

Germanshepherdsmum

I wouldn’t expect them to be fed haute cuisine growstuff. Probably some very poor people born in the UK would be very pleased to have that meal free of charge.

Don't be silly! But would you eat rubbishy burgers every day?

missdeke

Germanshepherdsmum

It is indeed untenable. The result of a challenge to the government’s plan to house up to 1700 male asylum seekers in a disused air base in rural Essex is currently awaited.

The SC said that in principle sending asylum seekers to a safe third country is not unlawful, they simply didn’t consider that Rwanda fitted the bill, so maybe a deal will be done with another country.

The migrants were demonstrating outside the base this week. They are saying that they don't have enough suitable food, clothes or blankets and nothing to do. Some of them have only flip flops to wear on their feet. They are only saying what local residents have said all along, wrong plan, wrong place. James Cleverly is the local MP and now he is the Home Secretary, he has agreed with local concern about the place, I wonder if he will change his tune now??? There are currently about 500 migrants housed at the base.

I would imagine he's going to have to think up some smart answer to this.

BTW The reason locals (who don't appear to mind living in the middle of nowhere) are peeved is because they're frightened about the value of their homes. The local council was planning to sell the site off for development of houses for people who don't mind living in the middle of nowhere.

Anyway, it's not going to be in the middle of nowhere for long because the local council is planning hundreds of thousands of new homes not far from the site, so there's going to be a fairly substantial new town fairly soon.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I wouldn’t expect them to be fed haute cuisine growstuff. Probably some very poor people born in the UK would be very pleased to have that meal free of charge.

Amalegra

The ECHR, like the international agreements on migrants/refugees, were made in another time and for altogether different purposes. It would be more useful for the international community to work together to make them fit for purpose in this modern age. Migration to Western Europe is likely to increase further in the coming years and the present situation is simply going to be unaffordable and untenable for very many countries not least our own. Our younger generations are going to be burdened enough in the coming years; to expect their taxes to remain at the present high level, or even increase, to meet international commitments is completely unfair.

I'm baffled by this. Which human rights are no longer relevant?

I wonder what the reaction is going to be to Cameron's demand/suggestion that the level of foreign aid is increased substantially.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t know the source of your information, but you can’t speak for all of them.

Neither can you. And those people who claim they are all here as "economic migrants" and think the UK is a soft touch don't speak for everybody either - nor do those who claim all migrant facilities are holiday camps.

The ECHR, like the international agreements on migrants/refugees, were made in another time and for altogether different purposes. It would be more useful for the international community to work together to make them fit for purpose in this modern age. Migration to Western Europe is likely to increase further in the coming years and the present situation is simply going to be unaffordable and untenable for very many countries not least our own. Our younger generations are going to be burdened enough in the coming years; to expect their taxes to remain at the present high level, or even increase, to meet international commitments is completely unfair.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s a totally unsuitable place in the middle of nowhere missdeke. I wonder what ‘suitable’ food they want? Perhaps they want to be put up at the Ritz after a shopping spree in the West End to buy clothes.

A local Conservative councillor was allowed access to Wethersfield. He was generally positive about the accommodation and people he met, but even he was scathing about the food. On the day he visited, the evening meal was cheap-looking burger with soggy chips and lettuce salad. He was told that was served up quite often.