Transgender footballer Francesca Needham says she’s being discriminated aga

Of course Tom Daley and his husband knew exactly the differences between a transwoman and a woman when they wanted a surrogate to enable them to have children. No confusion then, he was happy to discriminate.

Rosie51, I confess to having similar less than friendly thoughts about Mr Daley.

Excellent point Rosie51

I have no problem in transgender women and men competing in sports that already allow men and women to compete against each other. Dressage, show jumping, eventing everyone competes on an equal basis, even amateurs compete against professionals, children compete against adults and often win. I've also competed in pistol shooting competitions, no advantage being male, female or transgender. However, any sport that is currently strictly divided between males and females is IMO a complete no no. fwiw Tom Daley dives, it's more gymnastics than swimming so big feet, huge hands and long limbs count for a lot less! Great to see a GN accord....so far!

I agree foxie but men and women have never competed against one another in diving as far as I know, and that's how it should remain.

Smileless2012

I agree foxie but men and women have never competed against one another in diving as far as I know, and that's how it should remain.

Agree because a man is generally stronger and taller.

Dressage, show jumping, eventing everyone competes on an equal basis, even amateurs compete against professionals, children compete against adults and often win

An interesting and valid observation Foxie now add into the equation different sizes of horses or ponies and consider the unfairness of Shetland ponies v heavy hunters, Welsh cobs v thoroughbreds - it’s not the size of the rider (although clearly strength plays a part) but surely you’d agree it’s the size, build, strength and speed of the horse.
Or in this case, donkey
This is cute!
www.google.com/url?q=https://www.facebook.com/ilovedressage/videos/donkey-dressage/919455861443781/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiKp93ykOWCAxVQUEEAHUhjBb4QwqsBegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw0Chvr3FUgdH6E1wRSx477u

I like Tom Daley, but he's wrong about this.

Baggs

Sometimes it's necessary to make discriminatory judgments/rules for the sake of fairness.

Essentially, it's no different from discriminating against people who cheat by taking performance-enhancing drugs.

Sometimes it's necessary to make discriminatory judgments/rules for the sake of fairness.

And maybe for the sake of 'safety'?

Contact sports - or those with a potential for contact... surely women shouldn't be compelled to compete against transwomen who've been through male puberty.

It's dangerous.

Quite strange how it’s still OK to stop heavy weight boxers competing against bantam weight boxers because of the danger caused by bodily differences and because that would be an unfair competition.

RosiesMaw

^Dressage, show jumping, eventing everyone competes on an equal basis, even amateurs compete against professionals, children compete against adults and often win^

An interesting and valid observation Foxie now add into the equation different sizes of horses or ponies and consider the unfairness of Shetland ponies v heavy hunters, Welsh cobs v thoroughbreds - it’s not the size of the rider (although clearly strength plays a part) but surely you’d agree it’s the size, build, strength and speed of the horse.
Or in this case, donkey
This is cute!
www.google.com/url?q=https://www.facebook.com/ilovedressage/videos/donkey-dressage/919455861443781/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiKp93ykOWCAxVQUEEAHUhjBb4QwqsBegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw0Chvr3FUgdH6E1wRSx477u

Yes and generally the sex of the equine is of no importance, mares, geldings and stallions all compete against each other. Equestrian sports usually are completely dependent on the skill of the rider and the talent and training of the horse or pony it's not even about strength and size although it can be an advantage. The legendary Tiger Roll was 15.2, tiny for a racehorse but won the Grand National twice and had 5 wins at Cheltenham Festivals. The amazing showjumper Stroller won at Hickstead and took a Silver at the Olympics. My daughter aged 13 riding her 14.2 pony regularly beat adults on horses in dressage, showjumping and eventing. A small boast, I'm afraid, but she had such a lot of fun on her hairy pony who didn't seem to know he was small and had such a wonderful partnership with her!

You must have been very proud of her foxie and rightly so .

More whining.

Grantanow

More whining.

By posters or by Francesca Needham?

Happy post there foxie48. My daughters are late 30’s now. With their own small children. Yesterday we had one of those silly ‘what would you do if you won the lottery’ chats. The first thing they both said was ‘buy ponies for the children and start riding again ourselves’ Nothing beats horses and ponies though my dogs come close

Iam64

Happy post there foxie48. My daughters are late 30’s now. With their own small children. Yesterday we had one of those silly ‘what would you do if you won the lottery’ chats. The first thing they both said was ‘buy ponies for the children and start riding again ourselves’ Nothing beats horses and ponies though my dogs come close

Totally agree, I was an inner city kid from a poor family so being able to give my dd a pony was a dream come true for me! Problem was I knew nothing, it was very character building and we certainly had some adventures. I started riding because I was fed up with walking after her and even as an 8 year old she was a better rider than me. However, we have such lovely memories including several broken bones (me not her!).

Why are the minority of transwomen so aggressive and demanding? There are transwomen who want to just quietly get on with their new lives.

The Women’s Institute accept transwomen even if they haven’t transitioned and insist they must be called women 😳 I wrote to them saying they were ‘totally deluded’ if they believed this. We have not been allowed a democratic vote, this situation was foisted upon us.

We live in a strange new world and I dislike it. ☹️

I still love the world NanKate. I’m bewildered and infuriated by what a close friend refers to as ‘gender wooo wooo.’ She’s one of my friends subjected to threats ‘I’ll rape you to death with my lady penis’
Yes, this is a true threat, shouted at her and 2 younger women, they’d dared attend a Women’s Voice’ conference where they joined a discussion on allowing teenage boys who ID as girls to share dorm stories with teenage girls at Guide camps

They might share 'dorm stories' but I think 'dormitories' was the problem.

NanKate

Why are the minority of transwomen so aggressive and demanding? There are transwomen who want to just quietly get on with their new lives.

The Women’s Institute accept transwomen even if they haven’t transitioned and insist they must be called women 😳 I wrote to them saying they were ‘totally deluded’ if they believed this. We have not been allowed a democratic vote, this situation was foisted upon us.

We live in a strange new world and I dislike it. ☹️

Me too Nankate - “forcing” anybody to accept this is just wrong.

Sorry - the curse of text that self amends. Of course, I meant dormitories

Thanks Rosies for your support. The WI hierarchy treat me as if I am the mad one not them. Since when has a person with a penis been called a woman, it’s delusional. 🤪

Delusional indeed, NanKate. I’m not a WI member, but if I had been, I would certainly have left because of this nonsense.

foxie48

RosiesMaw

Dressage, show jumping, eventing everyone competes on an equal basis, even amateurs compete against professionals, children compete against adults and often win

An interesting and valid observation Foxie now add into the equation different sizes of horses or ponies and consider the unfairness of Shetland ponies v heavy hunters, Welsh cobs v thoroughbreds - it’s not the size of the rider (although clearly strength plays a part) but surely you’d agree it’s the size, build, strength and speed of the horse.
Or in this case, donkey
This is cute!
www.google.com/url?q=https://www.facebook.com/ilovedressage/videos/donkey-dressage/919455861443781/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiKp93ykOWCAxVQUEEAHUhjBb4QwqsBegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw0Chvr3FUgdH6E1wRSx477u

Yes and generally the sex of the equine is of no importance, mares, geldings and stallions all compete against each other. Equestrian sports usually are completely dependent on the skill of the rider and the talent and training of the horse or pony it's not even about strength and size although it can be an advantage. The legendary Tiger Roll was 15.2, tiny for a racehorse but won the Grand National twice and had 5 wins at Cheltenham Festivals. The amazing showjumper Stroller won at Hickstead and took a Silver at the Olympics. My daughter aged 13 riding her 14.2 pony regularly beat adults on horses in dressage, showjumping and eventing. A small boast, I'm afraid, but she had such a lot of fun on her hairy pony who didn't seem to know he was small and had such a wonderful partnership with her!

In racing, and fillies are given less weight in non handicap races, though. I’ve always wondered about the weight carried by horses in eventing, especially as it’s over such long distances. Same with show jumping.With racing one pound on the jockey equates to a length in a winning distance ( I think).

MayBee70

foxie48

RosiesMaw

Dressage, show jumping, eventing everyone competes on an equal basis, even amateurs compete against professionals, children compete against adults and often win

An interesting and valid observation Foxie now add into the equation different sizes of horses or ponies and consider the unfairness of Shetland ponies v heavy hunters, Welsh cobs v thoroughbreds - it’s not the size of the rider (although clearly strength plays a part) but surely you’d agree it’s the size, build, strength and speed of the horse.
Or in this case, donkey
This is cute!
www.google.com/url?q=https://www.facebook.com/ilovedressage/videos/donkey-dressage/919455861443781/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiKp93ykOWCAxVQUEEAHUhjBb4QwqsBegQIDhAE&usg=AOvVaw0Chvr3FUgdH6E1wRSx477u

Yes and generally the sex of the equine is of no importance, mares, geldings and stallions all compete against each other. Equestrian sports usually are completely dependent on the skill of the rider and the talent and training of the horse or pony it's not even about strength and size although it can be an advantage. The legendary Tiger Roll was 15.2, tiny for a racehorse but won the Grand National twice and had 5 wins at Cheltenham Festivals. The amazing showjumper Stroller won at Hickstead and took a Silver at the Olympics. My daughter aged 13 riding her 14.2 pony regularly beat adults on horses in dressage, showjumping and eventing. A small boast, I'm afraid, but she had such a lot of fun on her hairy pony who didn't seem to know he was small and had such a wonderful partnership with her!

In racing, and fillies are given less weight in non handicap races, though. I’ve always wondered about the weight carried by horses in eventing, especially as it’s over such long distances. Same with show jumping.With racing one pound on the jockey equates to a length in a winning distance ( I think).

No difference in eventing, showjumping or dressage although there are specific classes in affliliated show jumping competitions for ponies and horses but that is more to do with stride length. There are differences I think in FEI competitions though with specific competitions for ponies (148cm and under) and horses. I don't know much about racing but I think there's been encouragement for more mares to race so that they have a proven competition record so a reduced weight would make sense.