Net Migration Shocker

These figures just show that all the fuss about the boat people is merely meant to deflect our gaze from the level of legimitmate inward migration. the number entering this country illegally is almost invisible compared with legal migration

I have reached the stage where I am among those thinking that migration to this country is far too high it is leading to a stage where it is causing social disharmony with the wars in other countries being foughton our streets.

It is a failure of labour planning by successive governments over many decades. We should have had a plan that showed how many people we needed in the kyp professions - the heaalth sector being the prime area, we should then have increased the university and other training places to match the country's needs. Wages and salaries should also have been pitched at a level to bring the right number of people into those sectors.

Every half million increase in the population, increases our need for people in the health sector to meet those extra needs , puts pressure on housing.I am aware that increasing numbers, all gainfully employed adds to the economy, but at what price?

I never thought I would ever write the above words, and I beleieve that the many migrants we have accepted over the years have added greatly to our culture, but enough can become too much and I think we have reached the tipping point.

Iam64

They are MaizieD
A friend who was a senior manager at three different universities said they depended on foreign students
My local university has a large number of students from China

I think quite a proportion of the students are from Hong Kong, they certainly were when my son was at university. They can legally settle in the UK after their degrees if they want to, one of my son’s friends from his course has done so and is now a UK citizen.
www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-a-third-year-of-support-to-help-hong-kongers-settle-into-life-in-the-uk#:~:text=The%20government%20today%20(1%20March,and%20settle%20in%20the%20UK.

You dont need to read fancythat. Just watch, listen and, hopefully (as in that's what I always hope for), learn.

He's paid the subscriptions, followed those in the know and done the analysis for you.

Out of interest, do you watch the news or read a newspaper? It's just another way of getting information. I do "get" that some people don't want to engage with technology but it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that of of this on GN a reasonable number might like getting information that way.

What a comprehensive post M0nica.

Lack of planning seems to be the crux of so many of this government's problems.

maddyone I have blocked you ability to send me personal posts.

DAR good.

DaisyAnneReturns

Unpleasant? Stifling debate? What do you call this, eazybee? If you (or the writer) want others to speak softly and with reasoned facts, you need to the same.

And many don’t! They disappear into the black economy and therefore pay no taxes or insurance, and others simply keep on getting work visas and stay on to work, and bring their families in to join them, if they’re not already here as ‘dependents’ although I’m unsure how anyone can be dependent on a student without a job.

I find this disgusting. Others will find it disgusting too. When trying to work out why someone would say that, without any proof or numbers to tell us who and why those described are doing what MO says they are, I have reached only one conclusion. If there is another one I am very happy to learn.

Well, you could learn by reading up on it.It’s been known for ages that this often happens and they have eventually been removed from the UK.
And yes your remark to maddyone was unpleasant.

DaisyAnneReturns

What a comprehensive post M0nica.

Lack of planning seems to be the crux of so many of this government's problems.

If you had read Monica’s post properly you would have seen that she isn’t just blaming this government, but successive governments over many decades.

Iam64

They are MaizieD
A friend who was a senior manager at three different universities said they depended on foreign students
My local university has a large number of students from China

Nottingham University is full of Chinese students: has been for as long as I can remember. There is even a copy of one of their main buildings somewhere in China. They have very close links.

Border control are aware Oreo. They know who comes into the country and who leaves, and therefore it’s known when people fail to leave when their visa expires. As you say, it’s been known for a long time, and as people can’t work without a visa, they work in the black economy. It’s thought that a huge amount of money is lost from the taxes and NI not paid as a result of this.

It’s just been too easy for successive governments to ignore the problem with too much immigration, as long as they think money is rolling in they haven’t cared about the effect on the population or lack of housing and other facilities.

Last night on Sophie Ridge's programme on Sky the political editor broke down the figures into different groups - 97% were in the UK with visas. A large proportion were people who'd come to work in the health and care sectors - 40% give or take.

I did read her post "Oreo". I did see that she was talking about the failure of planning over decades. Why have you decided that I may not point to this government specifically, if I chose to?

The GN right-wing seem a little on edge today.

A fifth of all university income comes from overseas students and they pay on average £22K p.a. for an undergraduate course. This helps to keep fees down for UK students and enables them to keep courses that would not be viable without overseas students.
Nearly 100K work visas were issued to immigrants so they could work in the NHS, we could not run many of our hospitals without them. 78K visas were issued to people to work in health and social care. This is out of a total of 267.6K work visas.
I had an American staying with me last summer, she's been here on a student visa since 2015 doing a variety of different training/university courses. She's here quite legally, and is completely self supporting, doesn't have a work visa and doesn't need to work although she finished her masters at the end of last year. A high proportion of overseas students come from very wealthy families. My daughter has a couple from New Zealand staying with her both on NHS work visas both well qualified. When they are not working they are travelling to different European countries, it's basically their "gap" year. They will return to NZ when they've had enough of travelling. Most legal migrants bring money and their skills and training to this country, which adds to our economy it's just a pity that some of that benefit is not used to support the infrastructure. That's a govt decision and not the fault of people who are here quite legally.

MayBee70

Iam64

They are MaizieD
A friend who was a senior manager at three different universities said they depended on foreign students
My local university has a large number of students from China

Nottingham University is full of Chinese students: has been for as long as I can remember. There is even a copy of one of their main buildings somewhere in China. They have very close links.

You know me, I have find these things out!

According to HESA total enrolment figures for the top 10 sending countries to the UK in 2021-22 were:

China (151,690)
India (126,535)
Nigeria (44,195)
Pakistan (23,075)
United States (22,990)
Hong Kong (17,630)
Bangladesh (12,700)
Malaysia (12,135)
France (11,870)
Italy (11,320)

Dinahmo

Only 3% of that figure are people arriving on boats (ilegally as some would say)

The remainder are here on visas.

"as some would say"? They ARE here illegally. I don't know about "some", everyone should be saying it. Fact.

It has been said that Sunak wants high levels of immigration because it is thought to boost the economy. However unfortunately this has barely happened despite high immigration. It will not be different under Labour, although I think we desperately need a change of government. It looks as though we are destined to have high levels of immigration for the foreseeable future.

DaisyAnneReturns

I did read her post "Oreo". I did see that she was talking about the failure of planning over decades. Why have you decided that I may not point to this government specifically, if I chose to?

The GN right-wing seem a little on edge today.

I do think 13 years in power is long enough for any party to make a huge change if the will is there to do so. It means changing investment patterns though rather than relying on foreign income and skills.

Am a lifelong Labour supporter DAR tho I suspect you’re simply using the far right phrase as an insult.

Casdon I don’t think it would have been easy to make a huge change in immigration policies ( and implement them!) in the 13 years but they could sure have made a start.
Tony Blair’s government didn’t do anything either as they just saw money, a booming economy without caring about anything else.This problem really does go way back.

DAR let me be clear this problem with immigration is a long term problem, The planning I consider necessary should have started back in the 1970s and 1980s and every government since then has failed this country, again and again and again, Labour every bit as much as Conservatives.

With every year that passes the problem becomes more and more difficult. Even if this government had addressed the issue the process of investigating, planning and implementing would mean that we could not reasonably expect to see any results of it until 2030 or later. This is why previous governments have to bear a weight of responsibility ever bit as that lying on the shoulders of this government.

Oreo where did I say far-right?

Maddyone - maybe, when you say mothers have been coming with students some people perhaps don't realise why, or how.
They are not adult students - they are children attending independent schools whose patents are able to live for a short time over here...

You can only apply for a Parent of a Child Student visa if your child has or is applying for a Child Student visa.

Your child must be aged between 4 and 11 when you apply, and be attending an independent school in the UK.
(Source: gov.uk)

You must also be the only parent accompanying your child in the UK
have enough money to support yourself (and your child) in the UK
and maintain your main home outside the UK. You must also plan to leave the UK when your visa expires.

M0nica

DAR let me be clear this problem with immigration is a long term problem, The planning I consider necessary should have started back in the 1970s and 1980s and every government since then has failed this country, again and again and again, Labour every bit as much as Conservatives.

With every year that passes the problem becomes more and more difficult. Even if this government had addressed the issue the process of investigating, planning and implementing would mean that we could not reasonably expect to see any results of it until 2030 or later. This is why previous governments have to bear a weight of responsibility ever bit as that lying on the shoulders of this government.

I agree migration is a long-term problem M0nica. I also looks as if it will be a future and growing problem for many countries. As we were planning with the EU were such problem are concerned I do not believe there was the lack of planning we now see.

Generally, lack of planning is a fault of our form of democracy.

Remind me never to try and compliment anyone on GN!

were where

NotSpaghetti

Maddyone - maybe, when you say mothers have been coming with students some people perhaps don't realise why, or how.
They are not adult students - they are children attending independent schools whose patents are able to live for a short time over here...

You can only apply for a Parent of a Child Student visa if your child has or is applying for a Child Student visa.

Your child must be aged between 4 and 11 when you apply, and be attending an independent school in the UK.
(Source: gov.uk)

You must also be the only parent accompanying your child in the UK
have enough money to support yourself (and your child) in the UK
and maintain your main home outside the UK. You must also plan to leave the UK when your visa expires.

I hardly dare say this but great research NotSpaghetti.