So pleased to see hostages being released.

Do you honestly believe that idf are trying it’s best not to target the ordinary people Oreo?
If so they are making a really bad job of it, in my opinion,

Peaceable communities in the West Bank are being driven wholesale from their homes, often killed in the process and their homes are being bulldozed, settlers are moving in to take the land, and being defended by Israeli forces.

Nothing can defend these actions.

silverlining48

Do you honestly believe that idf are trying it’s best not to target the ordinary people Oreo?
If so they are making a really bad job of it, in my opinion,

Yes I do honestly believe that, they know the world is watching.
It can’t be done without casualties.So they either do it or don’t, and they can’t do nothing, it has to be done.How can it be done without casualties?

WWM yes there is no excuse for what violent settlers, with the acquiescence of idf , are doing on the West Bank while international eyes are on Gaza.
Hundreds of people have already been killed, I despair fir them and for us all.

The world is watching and even the US doesn't think Israel is trying hard enough to limit civilian deaths! Israel doesn't negotiate directly with Hamas it's done through intermediaries. These intermediaries, ie representatives from countries like the US, Qatar etc are instrumental in brokering any deal and can put pressure on. The negotiations will have been started very quickly after 7/10 I think because this situation has the potential to create major upheaval in a very unstable part of the world.

Vintagewhine 🙏🏽👍🏻

Read somewhere that Israel hopes to end the conflict by sometime in January.It isn’t the sort of war that can be dragged out indefinitely.

Oreo

Read somewhere that Israel hopes to end the conflict by sometime in January.It isn’t the sort of war that can be dragged out indefinitely.

The reason it will end sooner rather than later is because the US is becoming increasingly unwilling to support the slaughter of civilians in Gaza, it has nothing to do with Israel's willingness to stop the bombing.
"The aerial bombing campaign by Israel in Gaza is the most indiscriminate in terms of civilian casualties in recent years, a study published by an Israeli newspaper has found."
www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-09/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/the-israeli-army-has-dropped-the-restraint-in-gaza-and-data-shows-unprecedented-killing/0000018c-4cca-db23-ad9f-6cdae8ad0000

Oreo

foxie48 what you think about the Israeli government doesn’t make it true.
Just focused on the hostages and done nothing else you say?
That’s laughable.
They wouldn’t have got the number of hostages back they did without their action in Gaza.
If they had done nothing then the scenario by hamas in Gaza would very likely have been public executions of the hostages.
What you would call kind actions by Israel ie. Doing nothing but pursuing peace with neighbours, would be thought weak actions by hamas and more horror would follow.
The Israeli government had no choice but to go in after hamas hard. An awful situation all round but nothing else to be done regretfully.

"As they were on the point of signing a historic agreement with four Arab states, they could have focused on the return of the hostages and continued to build their relationships with their Arab neighbours. "

This is not "doing nothing" it is doing "different" There's a huge difference and it's what many Israeli's would have wanted. It would not have been "kind" it would have been "political". After 09 /11 when Afghanistan was the base for Bin Laden and a training ground for Al Qaeda, the US had a choice of bombing them to bits or asking the Taliban to get Bin Laden to move out. Bin Laden moved to Pakistan. This idea that you can't negotiate with terrorists is very naive. Hamas is not one organisation, it has a political wing and a military wing and there is conflict between them. It is much better to have them fighting amongst themselves than united by a war against them. Don't forget Israel's creation is a result of terrorism and three of their PMs have been wanted terrorists with involvement in murdering people. Sometimes the terrorists of today become the political leaders of tomorrow.

Keep posting please foxie. My fb page is full of calls for immediate ceasefire, support for Palestine - of course I share the wish for a ceasefire and despair at what’s happening.

Israeli press, critical of Natenyahu’s war policies have stated that the IDF are deliberately targeting civilian areas in the hope that the civilians will turn against HAMAS.

This s a war crime.

Horrible as this war is, I’m concerned that so little coverage is now being given to the equally horrible war in Ukraine now. I was only reading recently about the level of rapes in Ukraine, and about mothers allowing themselves to be raped in the hope that their little daughters wouldn’t be raped, but then they were forced to watch their young daughters raped too.

The gang rapes in Israel, where girls were raped by many until their pelvis was broken were also horrific.

All these rapes are beyond description. Or understanding.

Putin has been wanted for several years in The Hague for war crimes.

I know that’s your view foxie48 but not shared by me.

I agree maddyone and for us in Europe the Ukraine war is more relevant, Putin must either be defeated, his generals get rid of him or he pulls out of Ukraine to save face.

Putin cannot be allowed to take Ukraine, as he will not stop there…

Hamas have the end of the current conflict in their hands.

Release the hodges immediately.

The head honchos of Hamas need to sacrifice the terrorists who committed the heinous acts of 7/10 by handing them over to the Israeli’s or a third party Arab Country.

Of course the politics of the Middle East and Israel go back many years. We all know this, but what started this particular conflict were the awful events of 7/10. We all know this too.
Unsubstantiated claims such as that the IDF are targeting civilians don’t help. Actually I don’t believe that. I’ve seen footage on media, BBC and ITV so mainstream reporting, showing the IDF fighting and what I saw does not support such a claim but that is very limited to a few minutes of footage.
We don’t have any way of knowing if the horrendous loss of life claimed by Hamas is correct, but we do know that there have been huge losses. There have also been heavy losses of Hamas fighters and IDF soldiers.
The upshot is we don’t know a lot, but we do know much. What we believe or don’t believe won’t make any difference in the long run. This war will run its course. Netanyahu will go. A new leader will be elected and hopefully a new era of peace will reign. It won’t last though, because it never does in this region.
What does bother me though, is the way this particular war ignites such fierce emotions whereas Ukraine, Syria, Yemen, and indeed other wars, do not ignite the same emotions and certainly not for so long, and I’m concerned that this is because this war involves Israel and Jewish people.

GrannyGravy13

Putin cannot be allowed to take Ukraine, as he will not stop there…

Agreed.

It’s not really war in Gaza because there is no Gazan army. It’s not soldier killing soldier but soldier killing civilian.women and children mostly.
Are Hamas even retaliating, I bet they aren’t even there. I watch and listen to the news daily and havnt heard any reports of Israeli losses since October. It seems one sided and the families who have lost their homes and their lives are those without weapons.
Israel like so many other countries is being run on far right lines and wonder how much support there is for them in the civilian community.



.

silverlining48

It’s not really war in Gaza because there is no Gazan army. It’s not soldier killing soldier but soldier killing civilian.women and children mostly.
Are Hamas even retaliating, I bet they aren’t even there. I watch and listen to the news daily and havnt heard any reports of Israeli losses since October. It seems one sided and the families who have lost their homes and their lives are those without weapons.
Israel like so many other countries is being run on far right lines and wonder how much support there is for them in the civilian community.

.

Hamas were still targeting Israel (Tel Aviv) with rockets as of 24 hours ago.

Hamas are in active combat with the IDF in Gaza.

I saw a father being interviewed this weekend who was telling us about his 21 year old son, who was recently killed during the fighting in Gaza. He was in the IDF and had almost finished his term of duty. I have seen other parents interviewed about the loss of of their IDF soldier children over the last few weeks. Some of the soldiers were female.

Last night I watched an ITV news item which followed an IDF unit involved in fighting in an abandoned building, a school I think, where they were engaged in fighting with Hamas fighters, with not a civilian in sight, of course. This is war.

silverlinings your one sided view of this war, and it is a war, is trying. I suggest you watch the news reports from BBC, ITV, and others, and do not restrict yourself to reading only that which supports your view. I do not support The Guardian’s view of this war, but I do read it.

I saw there were several marches in support of Palestine which took place again yesterday. Several people were arrested for carrying antisemitic posters. Antisemitism is alive and well and flourishing in Britain.

Whitewavemark2

Israel, USA vetoed the call for a ceasefire by the UN.

The U.K. abstained.

The rest of the world is calling for a ceasefire. What is happening now in Gaza and the West Bank is abhorrent and little short of genocide.

Ceasefire = more deaths and casualties in the long run.

Hamas decided it wanted this war.
Israel doesnt agree.

Shout all you like paddyanne it doesn't make you more compassionate than anyone else.
What it does do is encourage me to not bother reading.

Thanks for the advice Maddy but I already watch BBC and ITV and other media every day, to keep up to date with the news.
I am not antisemitic but my view is different to yours; that’s ok.

That is okay silverlining certainly okay.

I was referring to the marches and antisemitic posters when I said antisemitism is alive and well in Britain today, not to any specific poster on Gransnet. Although I remember some posts were taken down a while ago for being antisemitic, but they were not your posts silverlining but the person shall remain nameless who did put those posts up. I don’t think they’re posting on this thread any longer.