So pleased to see hostages being released.

It’s important to recognise the Blair regrets he and other wold leaders yielding to Israeli pressure to impose a boycott of Hamas after it won Palestinian elections in 2006. Blair supported Bush in cutting off relations unless the Hamas led Palestinian Authority agreed to recognise Israel, reduce violence and abide by previous agreements. Blair now believes the international community should have tried ‘to pull Hamas into dialogue’

Thanks Iam64 I've just watched the first of the Norma Percy, Elusive Peace. I wonder how many people really know how much the US and others have tried to create peace in the region and to what extent they have also destroyed it? So many lost opportunities. News today about how Hamas and other terrorists were training for 7/11 in plain sight, what on earth was going on with the Israeli govt? We now know that several groups were involved in 7/11 so destroying Hamas and making Israel safe is just a pipe dream and the Israeli govt know it.

I think what is worrying is that the terror attacks by Hamas have created tensions all over Europe.

Jewish people are under threat and don't feel safe in the streets; and Muslims just wanting to go about their daily lives are intimidated by extremists - like Robinson. And Muslim extremists of course will use this opportunity to threaten jihad. The right-wing racists will be in full throttle as will the militant Islamists.

It's a bit of a tinderbox and I suspect that the police in various European nations are worried about civil 'war' breaking out on the streets and have visions of overturned, burnt-out vehicles, barricade in various areas, looting, and the usual violence perpetrated mostly by young men. Images we've all seen from time to time in the media.

I'd imagine that all the police forces are all trying to do what they believe will potentially avoid this kind of mayhem.

Our own police force has long insisted, after the cuts in their numbers, that they don't have the manpower to deal with serious disturbances (like this, I presume they meant).

It's easy to criticise them, but what would you have them do? Because they are in a no-win situation. If they go in heavy-handed and start arresting those pro-Palestinian marchers who are clearly out to cause mayhem - many of those who are not will get caught up in the ensuing fights with the police by the militants; officers will be attacked and injured, and like a cancer, it will spread to other cities in the UK.

I don't think the vile chants are being "tolerated" or "accepted". I'm sure the force are combing the photo's looking for those they can arrest - singly - some of whom will already "be known to the police".

Robinson was arrested because he breached the order to keep away from that march against anti-Semitism. The organisers were not fooled by his 'plan' to let British Jews know they "were not alone". They've seen the insignia that some of his followers sport, and heard the cries of "Sig Heil", and they know that football hooligans have a penchant for joining in, and that some are fuelled by alcohol.

If the police had not banned him - what then? There would have been a backlash from the organisers and the marchers.

The police are in a no-win situation. They are going to be damned whatever they do.

But before criticising them, I think people should just try to use their imagination and understand that they are, above all, attempting to keep the peace. They are not the military, they are not an army - and they can't act like one. They have riot shields and batons... imagine them wading into a - on the face of it - peaceful march to grab hold of individual marchers, and the scuffles that would potentially turn into fights, with them and with others joining in. And then, like wildfire, the media having this on their front pages - it would spread throughout the nation.

I say all this, and yet I am very critical of the police and quite cynical about the way they sometimes behave and perform. But, we do have to be realistic. That attack by Hamas has lit a torch - and we have to be careful to contain the potential danger that presents.

Thanks Dickens for another detailed post.

Since Sir Robert Peel developed and defined ethical policing, doing so by consent has been central. Policing the current marches is a real challenge. I’m sure Dickens is correct in believing cctv/surveillance will be used to identify those who are out to cause offence and stir trouble.

CCTV is being looked at (Godson in Met) unfortunately there are a lot of pro Palestinian marchers, and others with their faces hidden by scarves etc which hinders the police in identifying people of interest

Dickens I think you are correct, the world is currently a tinderbox.

The scarf covering presents yet another dilemma.

Iam64

The scarf covering presents yet another dilemma.

It does. I thought about that when I posted.

What can be done - ban all those taking part in marches, demonstrations, etc, from actually wearing them?

And what if a ban resulted in people ignoring it?

How did we get here? I was active in the 60s on various demos and marches... unless my memory's failing, I don't remember seeing people with scarves wrapped around their faces? My 'crowd' never wore them, anyway. We are quite anxious to be 'seen' and heard.

'Hoodies' and scarves are a problem.

I have this sort of 'documentary' constantly playing in the background of my mind... imagining a fairly close dystopia, and then many years from now when we're all gone... future generations looking back at our history - theorising where 'it all went wrong'. It could just be me being melodramatic, but I have a foreboding about the future, here in the UK. All is not well. It's a far cry from the enthusiastic, 'promising' 60s - British Art and culture was admired internationally, women were gradually shaking off paternalism, etc., etc. Or, maybe every young person has a 'golden age' - simply because they were young!

Or maybe it's 'globalism' - but the world has always been 'global' to some degree or other. We need an age of Enlightenment. The last two were effected by global influences tho! ???

Anyway, 'nuff rabbiting from me. I've work to do in the messy kitchen.

TB is responsible for what is happening the on going expansion, occupation and apartheid and Genocide. In 2006 when Hamas won there was meant to be a share between Hamas and an other Palestinian and were to try for a two state solution, but TB refused said he made a mistake. The Palistinians have been let down when they could have been helped throughout the many years

At the end part of the video link I posted explains this back further in this thread the history of Ireal and Palestine

Grany

Everything You Need To Know About Israel and Palestine | Ash Meets Rashid Khalidi

m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBU8fM34Jkg

Here towards the end is TB role from 2006 andthe ongoing conflict

With the ever tighter and tighter control the Israel government put on the Palestinians encroching on their toritory occupation it was bound to lead to Hamas retaliation

Grany

Grany

Everything You Need To Know About Israel and Palestine | Ash Meets Rashid Khalidi

m.youtube.com/watch?v=BBU8fM34Jkg

Here towards the end is TB role from 2006 andthe ongoing conflict

With the ever tighter and tighter control the Israel government put on the Palestinians encroching on their toritory occupation it was bound to lead to Hamas retaliation

Yet another post from the bastion of British democracy, Republic. Do they sponsor you Grany- ten posts a day and you get a free Not My King banner? (He is your king though, like it or not).

Yet another post from the bastion of British democracy, Republic

Yes, it's propaganda and I'm not at all sure it should be allowed on a social networking site such as Gransnet.

Personal opinions are one thing but copying and pasting political propaganda is wrong.

But every post confirms to me that I have as much in common with the far left as I do with the far right. Zero in common with either. Rather selfishly every post makes me feel more sure of my beliefs. I sort of see Grany as providing a public service.

Kfir Bibas 10 months and his 4 year old brother have not been released but given to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. They have been taken to Khan Younis which has been evacuated and where it was assumed the next stage of war will be. The boys both have red hair. I can only hope that their mother is with them and that they stay strong.
I don’t think that the IDF was prepared for hostages being moved around to key targets like this.

Ronib
Two Israeli experts talked in detail on this yesterday. On the 7th October it wasn’t just Hamas committing the atrocities but hired thugs as well.
They both claimed that the hostages held by these thugs weren’t being kept in the tunnels.

We shouldn’t be surprised that thugs and criminals are involved in the kidnapping. We saw organised crime gangs involved in the paramilitary organisations in Northern Ireland.

If only this was as simple as Grany insists. The complex situation all down to Tony Blair. I’m another with as much in common with the far left as the far right.

ronib

Kfir Bibas 10 months and his 4 year old brother have not been released but given to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. They have been taken to Khan Younis which has been evacuated and where it was assumed the next stage of war will be. The boys both have red hair. I can only hope that their mother is with them and that they stay strong.
I don’t think that the IDF was prepared for hostages being moved around to key targets like this.

If this is correct m it is very disturbing.
I was wondering when those two beautiful little boys would be released.
Such cruelty is past my understanding.

Hamas have not a shred of decency or humanity…

I am very upset about these babies. How wicked to use them as a human shield and given away as if they are objects. My heart breaks for their parents.

Sparklefizz

I am very upset about these babies. How wicked to use them as a human shield and given away as if they are objects. My heart breaks for their parents.

I also have no words for this heartless continuing act of cruelty, Hamas are playing unimaginable mind games.

Galaxy

But every post confirms to me that I have as much in common with the far left as I do with the far right. Zero in common with either. Rather selfishly every post makes me feel more sure of my beliefs. I sort of see Grany as providing a public service.

😁

But there are always gullible people who will believe the garbage untruths.

The problem is, anyone who can see the advantages of a monarchy, with all its faults, over a republic with even more faults, is then accused of being a sycophants and worse, rather than a pragmatist.

If only this was as simple as Grany insists. The complex situation all down to Tony Blair. I’m another with as much in common with the far left as the far right.

I agree, Iam64
Now, how old was Tony Blair in 1948? 🤔

ronib

Kfir Bibas 10 months and his 4 year old brother have not been released but given to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. They have been taken to Khan Younis which has been evacuated and where it was assumed the next stage of war will be. The boys both have red hair. I can only hope that their mother is with them and that they stay strong.
I don’t think that the IDF was prepared for hostages being moved around to key targets like this.

I pray that they will be released unharmed

Callistemon21 yes I do too. The slaughter of innocents is in my mind.
It’s so difficult for anyone removed from the situation to know if the information is true or propaganda however. A number of different sources have agreed on the story though.

I saw the tv footage when the two little red haired children were taken with their mother. The captors were gentle and I really hope they and everyone else are safe.
The problem is that hostages are presumably being kept in Gaza which has been bombed relentlessly over the past 6 weeks, with the prospect of it continuing after this pause, so once again all civilians will be at risk and many more will sadly be killed.

Well I feel sick at the way hamas is releasing hostages in a trickle. We all know why! They want to prolong the ceasefire and so they say they cannot find some hostages because another murderous group has them. I have read this thread with great interest and having found out Granys political affiliations I will simply ignore her posts. Read about the 10 month old Israeli hostage. These Hamas people and their murderous offshoots are a disgrace to humanity. nanna8 sums up how I feel and how any grandparent who can find excuses for kidnapping small children and only releasing part of any hostage family should admit that Hamas do not want those released to talk of what happened to them at the hands of their kidnappers so the released hostages will not discuss their treatment because of those still being held/ Anyone who cannot see that this is a thought out plan by wicked killers needs their heads read!

Anniel yes agreed but also I have a horrible feeling that hostages are being repositioned to cover sites which IDF would normally attack. I don’t know what IDF will do therefore - do they run the risk of attacking their own small children?