So pleased to see hostages being released.

Callistemon21

^Goodness knows how long restoration will take this time^
That's a question we've asked, and the same with Ukraine. And Syria.

The difference between Ukraine, Syria and Gaza is that both of those countries have open or reasonably open access. Gaza is a closed country with Israel controlling what goes in. Last time they wanted the development fully controlled and limited. No one will be doing that in either of those countries.

The difference between Ukraine, Syria and Gaza is that both of those countries have open or reasonably open access

Syria?
Look what happens with a presidential system!!

Callistemon21

^The difference between Ukraine, Syria and Gaza is that both of those countries have open or reasonably open access^

Syria?
Look what happens with a presidential system!!

Callistemon21 of course the political system is wrong. But if you chose to load a boat with medical supplies and sail to Syria you would probably gain access.
The history of Israel blocking access of ships to Gaza is well documented and their actions have been condemned by the UN .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid#Delivery_of_cargo
Trying to balance or justify the Israeli treatment of Palestinians in Gaza by comparing it with an extremist regime is neither reasonable nor possible.

Fishermen are restricted to a few miles off the coast to fish. They are watched by drones etc all the time and if they drift out of the narrow zone allowed they are shot at by the Israelis.

Simon reeve did a programme about this and went out to sea with a fisherman. There were no fish. If he went further out he risked being shot. Sometimes they have to take that chance. What a terrible decision to have to make,

It’s extremely difficult getting permission to leave Israel for serious medical treatment or other reason, They can be kept waiting at the checkpoint crossing for hours, even days, in the hot sun, in terrible pain, and still be denied.

Their lives are ruled by Israel, with no autonomy; they have little , they suffer restrictions of movement, speech and basic goods.

This has been their lived experience for more than 60 years.

It’s obvious to me that whatever is imported into Gaza is monitored by the Israelis to try to prevent exactly what happened on 7/10. And they still managed to import all the guns, knives, bombs and grenades needed in order to perpetuate that vile attack. Not to mention importing people! It’s been said that there were members from ISIS, and various other vile terror groups who took part in that attack. Somehow they all got into Gaza, despite the Israelis trying to monitor what and who went in. The monitoring that took place before 7/10 is likely to be nothing compared to what is likely to happen at the end of all this.

Glorianny

Callistemon21

The difference between Ukraine, Syria and Gaza is that both of those countries have open or reasonably open access

Syria?
Look what happens with a presidential system!!

Callistemon21 of course the political system is wrong. But if you chose to load a boat with medical supplies and sail to Syria you would probably gain access.
The history of Israel blocking access of ships to Gaza is well documented and their actions have been condemned by the UN .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid#Delivery_of_cargo
Trying to balance or justify the Israeli treatment of Palestinians in Gaza by comparing it with an extremist regime is neither reasonable nor possible.

But if you chose to load a boat with medical supplies and sail to Syria you would probably gain access

I thought we were discussing rebuilding countries devastated by war? I meant rebuilding homes, roads, infrastructure etc. It's going to take years, if it ever gets started. ☹

A little rebuilding has begun in Syria.

maddyone

It’s obvious to me that whatever is imported into Gaza is monitored by the Israelis to try to prevent exactly what happened on 7/10. And they still managed to import all the guns, knives, bombs and grenades needed in order to perpetuate that vile attack. Not to mention importing people! It’s been said that there were members from ISIS, and various other vile terror groups who took part in that attack. Somehow they all got into Gaza, despite the Israelis trying to monitor what and who went in. The monitoring that took place before 7/10 is likely to be nothing compared to what is likely to happen at the end of all this.

Stage7 of the 10 stages of genocide applies here

➔ 7. PREPARATION: Plans are made for genocidal killings. National or perpetrator group leaders plan the “Final Solution” to the Jewish, Armenian, Tutsi or other targeted group “question.” They often use euphemisms to cloak their intentions, such as referring to their goals as “ethnic cleansing,” “purification,” or “counter-terrorism.” They build armies, buy weapons and train their troops and militias. They indoctrinate the populace with fear of the victim group. Leaders often claim that “if we don’t kill them, they will kill us,” disguising genocide as self-defense. Acts of genocide are disguised as counter-insurgency if there is an ongoing armed conflict or civil war. There is a sudden increase in inflammatory rhetoric and hate propaganda with the objective of creating fear of the other group. Political processes such as peace accords that threaten the total dominance of the genocidal group or upcoming elections that may cost them their grip on total power may actually trigger genocide.

There is much reporting that the ten month old baby, his four year old brother, and their mother have all been killed during an Israeli air strike. I wonder if this is Hamas propaganda because other hostages have been reported dead and subsequently released. So we don’t know if this is propaganda or not, or if the little family have been handed over to another terrorist group as Hamas have also claimed that too.

Glorianny

maddyone

It’s obvious to me that whatever is imported into Gaza is monitored by the Israelis to try to prevent exactly what happened on 7/10. And they still managed to import all the guns, knives, bombs and grenades needed in order to perpetuate that vile attack. Not to mention importing people! It’s been said that there were members from ISIS, and various other vile terror groups who took part in that attack. Somehow they all got into Gaza, despite the Israelis trying to monitor what and who went in. The monitoring that took place before 7/10 is likely to be nothing compared to what is likely to happen at the end of all this.

Stage7 of the 10 stages of genocide applies here

➔ 7. PREPARATION: Plans are made for genocidal killings. National or perpetrator group leaders plan the “Final Solution” to the Jewish, Armenian, Tutsi or other targeted group “question.” They often use euphemisms to cloak their intentions, such as referring to their goals as “ethnic cleansing,” “purification,” or “counter-terrorism.” They build armies, buy weapons and train their troops and militias. They indoctrinate the populace with fear of the victim group. Leaders often claim that “if we don’t kill them, they will kill us,” disguising genocide as self-defense. Acts of genocide are disguised as counter-insurgency if there is an ongoing armed conflict or civil war. There is a sudden increase in inflammatory rhetoric and hate propaganda with the objective of creating fear of the other group. Political processes such as peace accords that threaten the total dominance of the genocidal group or upcoming elections that may cost them their grip on total power may actually trigger genocide.

This is an isolated point that ignores the fact that Hamas started this conflict, not Israel. Would you like to post the section of this document that relates to the Hamas action too, in the interests of balance?

I have been reading some accounts from the released Israeli Hostages, one young person was held captive in an attic in the home of a UNRWA teacher. Another hostage was held captive by a Gazan Doctor. (Source, posts by hostages friends and family)

Of course there are innocents in Gaza, but there are also many who support Hamas…

I’ve never been of any other opinion GrannyGravy. The children are the innocents in Gaza but the population not so much. I formed this opinion after the 7/10 attacks when the 20 year old girl who was captured at the festival and raped, murdered, and partially stripped and then paraded in a truck through the streets of Gaza. The population, mainly men I observed from the pictures, cheered and spat on her body. Says it all really.

I’m not aware that her body has been recovered, but a fragment of her skull was identified by her DNA a couple of weeks after 7/10. Only then did her distraught mother accept her daughter had been murdered during the attacks.

Casdon

Glorianny

maddyone

It’s obvious to me that whatever is imported into Gaza is monitored by the Israelis to try to prevent exactly what happened on 7/10. And they still managed to import all the guns, knives, bombs and grenades needed in order to perpetuate that vile attack. Not to mention importing people! It’s been said that there were members from ISIS, and various other vile terror groups who took part in that attack. Somehow they all got into Gaza, despite the Israelis trying to monitor what and who went in. The monitoring that took place before 7/10 is likely to be nothing compared to what is likely to happen at the end of all this.

Stage7 of the 10 stages of genocide applies here

➔ 7. PREPARATION: Plans are made for genocidal killings. National or perpetrator group leaders plan the “Final Solution” to the Jewish, Armenian, Tutsi or other targeted group “question.” They often use euphemisms to cloak their intentions, such as referring to their goals as “ethnic cleansing,” “purification,” or “counter-terrorism.” They build armies, buy weapons and train their troops and militias. They indoctrinate the populace with fear of the victim group. Leaders often claim that “if we don’t kill them, they will kill us,” disguising genocide as self-defense. Acts of genocide are disguised as counter-insurgency if there is an ongoing armed conflict or civil war. There is a sudden increase in inflammatory rhetoric and hate propaganda with the objective of creating fear of the other group. Political processes such as peace accords that threaten the total dominance of the genocidal group or upcoming elections that may cost them their grip on total power may actually trigger genocide.

This is an isolated point that ignores the fact that Hamas started this conflict, not Israel. Would you like to post the section of this document that relates to the Hamas action too, in the interests of balance?

None of the 10 actually relate to Hamas. Many of them apply to Israel
genocidewatch.net/genocide-2/8-stages-of-genocide/
Especially 3 for Palestinians
3. DISCRIMINATION: A dominant group uses law, custom, and political power to deny the rights of other groups. The powerless group may not be accorded full civil rights, voting rights, or even citizenship. The dominant group is driven by an exclusionary ideology that would deprive less powerful groups of their rights. The ideology advocates monopolization or expansion of power by the dominant group. It legitimizes the victimization of weaker groups. Advocates of exclusionary ideologies are often charismatic, expressing resentments of their followers, attracting support from the masses. Examples include the Nuremberg Laws of 1935 in Nazi Germany, which stripped Jews of their German citizenship, and prohibited their employment by the government and by universities. Denial of citizenship to the Rohingya Muslim minority in Burma is a current example.

Prevention against discrimination means full political empowerment and citizenship rights for all groups in a society. Discrimination on the basis of nationality, ethnicity, race or religion should be outlawed. Individuals should have the right to sue the state, corporations, and other individuals if their rights are violated.

So what is a major act of sustained terrorism classified as *Glorianny, is there a separate scale of definitions for that?

Casdon

So what is a major act of sustained terrorism classified as *Glorianny, is there a separate scale of definitions for that?

Not that I know of. But even you must admit that genocide is in a slightly different category to terrorism, something which has led to the creation of some states, but never I think to the complete annihilation of a people.

GrannyGravy13

I have been reading some accounts from the released Israeli Hostages, one young person was held captive in an attic in the home of a UNRWA teacher. Another hostage was held captive by a Gazan Doctor. (Source, posts by hostages friends and family)

Of course there are innocents in Gaza, but there are also many who support Hamas…

one young person was held captive in an attic in the home of a UNRWA teacher

If that is true, then that is an absolute disgrace.
The UN often has questions to answer and this needs investigation.

It's the women and children in Gaza I feel sorry for. Someone said there was a lack of compassion on Gransnet but I cannot feel sorry for crowds of men who behave in the way you and maddyone describe, Grannygravy.

Glorianny

Casdon

So what is a major act of sustained terrorism classified as *Glorianny, is there a separate scale of definitions for that?

Not that I know of. But even you must admit that genocide is in a slightly different category to terrorism, something which has led to the creation of some states, but never I think to the complete annihilation of a people.

Sometimes you take my breath away - should we say, oh, that’s okay then?!
By the way what do you mean by ‘even you’? It’s not me who has a completely partisan view of this conflict. Why are you unable to admit that this conflict started as a result of a major act of terrorism?

This conflict did not start last month, it’s been going on for decades. Thousands have died, 6000 children since October.
I repeat, 6000 children have died in the last few weeks.
Many many more thousands over the last 30 40 or 50 years.

I have just deleted a post trying to explain some of the background because it’s already been said.
If any are interested to learn more it’s not hard to find.

silverlining48

This conflict did not start last month, it’s been going on for decades. Thousands have died, 6000 children since October.
I repeat, 6000 children have died in the last few weeks.
Many many more thousands over the last 30 40 or 50 years.

I have just deleted a post trying to explain some of the background because it’s already been said.
If any are interested to learn more it’s not hard to find.

We all know it’s been going on for years and years. The amount of innocent Jews and Palestinians killed is heartbreaking.

However this recent conflict/war was started on 7/10 by the heinous actions of Hamas who did not want the trilateral peace agreement to be signed.

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

So what is a major act of sustained terrorism classified as *Glorianny, is there a separate scale of definitions for that?

Not that I know of. But even you must admit that genocide is in a slightly different category to terrorism, something which has led to the creation of some states, but never I think to the complete annihilation of a people.

Sometimes you take my breath away - should we say, oh, that’s okay then?!
By the way what do you mean by ‘even you’? It’s not me who has a completely partisan view of this conflict. Why are you unable to admit that this conflict started as a result of a major act of terrorism?

This section of the conflict may have started on 7/10, but the sustained genocide has been going on for years.
Who knows if world leaders had spoken up about the treatment of Palestinians, if the UN had some means of insisting Israel comply with its rulings, if some international action had been taken about Gaza the events of 7/10might never have happened.
The events unfolding did not begin on 7/10.it is just when the situation came to the notice of the general public

I find it unbelievable that there are educated people on GN who either cannot understand or just outright are unable to admit that it was the actions of Hamas on 7/10 that caused the current situation…

Perhaps it's because they believe in non-linear causality and you believe in linear causality. It's not a question of "education" it's more about an underlying belief system that is different to yours. I think you may be trying to insult people who have a different way of looking at the world by suggesting they are actually not that bright? I hope not, it's not a nice way to argue your case. Having a different POV is not about education or intelligence, if it were all the intelligent, well educated people would think the same and they don't!

GrannyGravy13

I find it unbelievable that there are educated people on GN who either cannot understand or just outright are unable to admit that it was the actions of Hamas on 7/10 that caused the current situation…

Of course it was. The blockade Israel has imposed, the apartheid state Amnesty reported on, the right wing Israeli government played absolutely no part whatsoever.
But you are entirely right in that the events of 7/10 enabled Israel to launch the next stage of the genocide.

Glorianny

Casdon

Glorianny

Casdon

So what is a major act of sustained terrorism classified as *Glorianny, is there a separate scale of definitions for that?

Not that I know of. But even you must admit that genocide is in a slightly different category to terrorism, something which has led to the creation of some states, but never I think to the complete annihilation of a people.

Sometimes you take my breath away - should we say, oh, that’s okay then?!
By the way what do you mean by ‘even you’? It’s not me who has a completely partisan view of this conflict. Why are you unable to admit that this conflict started as a result of a major act of terrorism?

This section of the conflict may have started on 7/10, but the sustained genocide has been going on for years.
Who knows if world leaders had spoken up about the treatment of Palestinians, if the UN had some means of insisting Israel comply with its rulings, if some international action had been taken about Gaza the events of 7/10might never have happened.
The events unfolding did not begin on 7/10.it is just when the situation came to the notice of the general public

You don’t ever hear alternative perspectives Glorianny. You have a fixed idea in your head about what is ‘right’, and freely accuse others of prejudice if they don’t accept your view of Gaza/Palestine/Israel and have the temerity to put forward their perspective. I take exception to your implication, which you failed to acknowledge in your response that I fall into some category of ‘even you’ because I challenged what you said.

Of course it was the actions of Hamas which started this particular situation, but it was as a result of years of repression, ill treatment and unwarranted killings of Palestinians in at least 4 wars which were barely mentioned by our media.

There is a massive imbalance and inequality between the two parties; the rich and powerful against the poor and powerless.

I have no connection with either side but saw the injustice years ago and see it still.