So pleased to see hostages being released.

I have been listening to Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart on YouTube talking about the history of Israel and a lot more. Rory Stewart refers to the Roman expulsion of the Jewish people from Israel a very long time ago. Definitely worth listening.

That is to GG. I took too long and other posts were quicker.

foxie48

Perhaps it's because they believe in non-linear causality and you believe in linear causality. It's not a question of "education" it's more about an underlying belief system that is different to yours. I think you may be trying to insult people who have a different way of looking at the world by suggesting they are actually not that bright? I hope not, it's not a nice way to argue your case. Having a different POV is not about education or intelligence, if it were all the intelligent, well educated people would think the same and they don't!

I have acknowledged repeatedly that the animosity between Israel and Palestine goes back years.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years.

No matter what has gone before, Hamas is entirely responsible for the current situation. They knew Israel would respond hard, it’s what they wanted, it validates their very existence.

silverlining48

Of course it was the actions of Hamas which started this particular situation, but it was as a result of years of repression, ill treatment and unwarranted killings of Palestinians in at least 4 wars which were barely mentioned by our media.

There is a massive imbalance and inequality between the two parties; the rich and powerful against the poor and powerless.

I have no connection with either side but saw the injustice years ago and see it still.

I cannot disagree, but I would like to know where the millions of aid $’s which Hamas has received being the elected government of Gaza has gone.

It certainly hasn’t gone to the civilian population.

I don’t know anything about how much, and who has paid Hamas, please enlighten us.
Maybe they built the hospitals? Gaza had quite a few , most destroyed now.
As we know, Hamas was elected in 2006/7 on a no more corruption ballot and the electorate trusted them but not been given the opportunity since to change their vote.
We all know about promises from politicians, they fall flat once they get into power, but at least we get a regular opportunity to decide.. They havnt had that choice.

600 million $ 2020

4.5 billion $ 2014-2020

From the international community

The millions of aid which has been donated to Palestine appears to have gone to fund building the three hundred miles of tunnels under Gaza, including the steel reinforcements used to ensure it’s strength, not to mention the air conditioning units in order to ensure clean air in the tunnels. It has obviously been used to buy arms such as guns, grenades, knives, and other weapons. Uniforms, pay, food for the soldiers terrorists, and of course the luxurious places used to house the Hamas leaders in Qatar. Not one penny can have been spent on the civilians.
There is absolutely no way tat the civilians didn’t know about any of this. Three hundred miles of underground tunnels cannot be built in silence.

I’ve seen a report of the two Israelis released tonight. They were driven by Hamas terrorists, toting guns and hiding their faces, to a Red Cross ambulance. They looked terrified. I would guess they hadn’t been told what was about to happen. The car they arrived in was surrounded by a huge crowd of Palestinians who were shouting and jeering at them. These people were Palestinian civilians. They know exactly what has been going on and they certainly appear approve.

Meanwhile their innocent children have been maimed and killed, but still they find the energy and hatred to jeer at terrified women hostages.

GrannyGravy13

foxie48

Perhaps it's because they believe in non-linear causality and you believe in linear causality. It's not a question of "education" it's more about an underlying belief system that is different to yours. I think you may be trying to insult people who have a different way of looking at the world by suggesting they are actually not that bright? I hope not, it's not a nice way to argue your case. Having a different POV is not about education or intelligence, if it were all the intelligent, well educated people would think the same and they don't!

I have acknowledged repeatedly that the animosity between Israel and Palestine goes back years.

Jews have been persecuted for 1,000’s of years.

No matter what has gone before, Hamas is entirely responsible for the current situation. They knew Israel would respond hard, it’s what they wanted, it validates their very existence.

This is the post that I was responding to:
"I find it unbelievable that there are educated people on GN who either cannot understand or just outright are unable to admit that it was the actions of Hamas on 7/10 that caused the current situation…"

I stand by my opinion that if Hamas hadn’t murdered, tortured and taken hostages on 7/10 the current situation wouldn’t have occurred.

Thanks GG, I will have a look.

I don’t know anything about how much, and who has paid Hamas, please enlighten us
There has been $billions in aid and the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power as GrannyGravy has posted.

As others have asked, where has this aid money gone? 🤔
Are the Palestinian people free to vote for their choice or are they coerced?
Is there discrimination against women?

The last time there was an election was 2006.

silverlining48

The last time there was an election was 2006.

Why do people keep claiming Hamas was elected?

Hamas was elected

They promised to get rid of corruption…and presumably the people believed them.

GrannyGravy13

I stand by my opinion that if Hamas hadn’t murdered, tortured and taken hostages on 7/10 the current situation wouldn’t have occurred.

You have made your point very clearly but it is your difficulty in understanding how "educated" people might think differently to you that I have addressed.

foxie48 there are posts on this and other Israel/Palestine threads where there is little to no acknowledgement of Hamas’s repeated acts of violence (not just 7/10) bombings along with funnelling money to offshore accounts and building extensive property portfolios as opposed to spending it on the civilian population that elected them.

All blame is directed at Israel.

I find the above unfathomable.

GG13 said "I cannot disagree, but I would like to know where the millions of aid $’s which Hamas has received being the elected government of Gaza has gone.

It certainly hasn’t gone to the civilian population."

I don't think anyone would disagree that some of the foreign aid has been siphoned off by Hamas but the vast majority of it has gone to the civilian population. It funds the schools, the hospitals, the water treatment system, rubbish collection, provides fuel, food, medical equipment, building materials etc Gaza has little in the way of natural resources, even the opportunity to fish is severely limited. The average daily wage in Gaza is 13 dollars, 53% of Gazans live in poverty, 46% of Gazans are unemployed, without foreign aid they would starve to death.

Leaders of Hamas

Haniyeh & Mashal are each worth $4 billion
Marzuk is worth $3 billion

Hamas annual turnover $1 billion

In a series of recent interviews the Hamas top leaders expressed little desire to govern Gaza, they do however want the war with Israel to remain permanent.

Source Hindustan times.com

Probably because the money keeps rolling in GrannyGravy as long as the Gazan’s are kept poor. I wouldn’t be surprised to see huge amounts of money donated to Gaza when all this is over, but wonder how much of it will actually be spent on the Gazans.

Would add to that list already given by Foxie that aid is presumably needed to rebuild or repair homes which have been damaged or destroyed by regular conflict which is only occasionally reported on by our media.

A few years ago at school, we used to send parcels to the children in Gaza. One of the grandparents was a visiting surgeon there and he used to give the school a lecture. Apparently, citizens of Gaza were very poor and in need of even the basics.

Joseann

A few years ago at school, we used to send parcels to the children in Gaza. One of the grandparents was a visiting surgeon there and he used to give the school a lecture. Apparently, citizens of Gaza were very poor and in need of even the basics.

Just think what the money mentioned in GrannyGravy's post could have done for them.

silverlining48

Would add to that list already given by Foxie that aid is presumably needed to rebuild or repair homes which have been damaged or destroyed by regular conflict which is only occasionally reported on by our media.

I do not disagree that Aid is continuously needed in Gaza, I do have questions on where and how it is spent.

I have absolutely no trust or faith that the elected representatives of Gaza, Hamas, have the best intentions for the civilians of Gaza, nor have they ever.

We have tried to answer your question by giving examples of how aid is spent.
I am no apologist for Hamas but if there is so little employment and so much poverty there is no money raised internally and keeping over 2 million people going is very costly.
They were actually able to support themselves 40 or so years ago but the illegal land grabs by settlers meant many lost their farms and ancestors olive groves .... ..it’s a sad story.