OFSTED is not ‘Fit for purpose’ yet world class education goal?

Bella23
When I first taught you never knew when the Inspector was arriving which was often. We knew them all by name, they were courteous and if anything wrong was found your head was discreetly told and it was passed on to you. If people failed their probationary year they were encouraged to stay in the profession and were given extra help and supervision. Not made to feel a complete failure.
IME, that was exactly how school inspectors used to be, though I only met two before OfSTED stepped in. They were knowledgeable and helpful.
OfSTED inspectors are mostly knowledgeable, even if it’s only about what you’re doing wrong, but rarely helpful.
It isn’t their job to tell you how you could improve, only that you should. Although to be fair, one inspector, watching a child, whose laptop had just blue-screened turned to me and said you may need to get a new computer.

I hesitate to say too much but the process of inspection and what the school achieves often depends upon the integrity and willingnesss of the head to manipulate and subvert the process.
I've been in schools where weak staff went off sick with the tacit approval of the head.
It sounds as if Ruth Perry was a dedicated headteacher who cared so much for her school and did her best for all her pupils.
Ofsted needs to go and the money should be spent on local support and help for teachers.

private education inspections are far less investigative

I don’t think so. My husband experienced a number of OFSTED inspections during his time at an independent school. Some of the inspectors seemed to have an agenda just because it was a private school. He was subjected to much the same experience as I was in a state school. The same rules and conditions apply, and because it was also a boarding school, there was an additional rigorous inspection of the boarding facilities, which is of course important, as safe guarding in such an environment is crucial. The inspectors appeared to be just, if not more, arrogant and entitled as they often were in my school. The difference actually appeared to be that some of the inspectors who came to the school I worked in seemed a bit more human.

I heard Amanda Speilman interviewed by Emma Barnett on Woman’s Hour. AS was cold and rather than defensive, frankly seemed self satisfied and smug. Nothing to see here, move on was her attitude to Ruth Perry’s death.

My daughter taught at an inner city primary school. Montessori underlined the ethos of the school. There was a lengthy Guardian article about the huge improvements in attainment and behaviour as a result of the head teacher introducing Montessori. The school became an academy, the new management didn’t want this airy fairy Montessori so told the head to drop that. They did however wcanted her to continue with her behaviour management approach. They didn’t seem able to see the interconnectedness. They squeezed her out - she moved on to a new career in the creative industry.

Academies, Ofsted, a government with consistently critical approach to public service 😱

Like the CQC, Ofsted seems to have lost sight of its true objectives.

It has been said Ofsted is in place to inspect. If they find something wrong they should point out measures that could be put in place to rectify. They don't because they haven't got the knowledge to do so.
When I was young the saying went "If you can teach you teach. If you can't you become a manager [head], if you can't manage you become an Inspector". I think it still rings true today.
To leave a daming report with the poor head all over the Christmas holidays knowing she could not tell her staff or start to put what they said was wrong right beggars belief.

Before OFSTED was introduced, there were subject advisors. The modern languages advisor in our county was excellent, helpful and supportive and also willing to accept ideas and opinions from teachers.
And I don't remember HMIs being nasty then either.
What a change when OFSTED was introduced. Why were experienced HoDs made to feel so upset? Why did popular heads take early retirement?
Finally, why are retention figures for newly qualified teachers so low?

growstuff

Joseann

I feel so very sorry for Ruth Perry and her family, and I suspect many Headteachers come close to breaking point during and after an Ofsted inspection. I am appalled that the Headtescher was subjected to rudeness and insensitivity. Intimidation should not be allowed.
However, I know someone who is an Inspector, who is sensitive to the needs of teachers, and who makes every effort to prevent undue stress for Headteachers.
As Mollygo says, the inspecting is variable and definitely needs an overhaul.

If that's your OH, it's been established in previous conversations that he's not an Ofsted inspector and that state and private school inspections are different.

However, I know someone who is an Inspector, who is sensitive to the needs of teachers, and who makes every effort to prevent undue stress for Headteachers

I am bemused that you could extrapolate the following from that statement growstuff:

If that's your OH, it's been established in previous conversations that he's not an Ofsted inspector

I expect Josanne knows more people than just her own DH.

I am not and was not a teacher (thank goodness!) but I have many friends who were and also know two Ofsted Inspectors.
None of them are my DH.

maddyone

^private education inspections are far less investigative ^

I don’t think so. My husband experienced a number of OFSTED inspections during his time at an independent school. Some of the inspectors seemed to have an agenda just because it was a private school. He was subjected to much the same experience as I was in a state school. The same rules and conditions apply, and because it was also a boarding school, there was an additional rigorous inspection of the boarding facilities, which is of course important, as safe guarding in such an environment is crucial. The inspectors appeared to be just, if not more, arrogant and entitled as they often were in my school. The difference actually appeared to be that some of the inspectors who came to the school I worked in seemed a bit more human.

Presumably he worked in a non-association private school, which is why it was inspected by OFSTED. About half of independent schools belong to independent school associations and are inspected by the ISI, which has a different framework.

It was because he experienced OFSTED inspections rather that ISI ones that they were like OFSTED inspections.

Romola

Before OFSTED was introduced, there were subject advisors. The modern languages advisor in our county was excellent, helpful and supportive and also willing to accept ideas and opinions from teachers.
And I don't remember HMIs being nasty then either.
What a change when OFSTED was introduced. Why were experienced HoDs made to feel so upset? Why did popular heads take early retirement?
Finally, why are retention figures for newly qualified teachers so low?

Some very pertinent comments and questions Romola

I do remember some of my friends becoming very stressed when they knew there might be an inspection, and that was years ago.

Callistemon21

growstuff

Joseann

I feel so very sorry for Ruth Perry and her family, and I suspect many Headteachers come close to breaking point during and after an Ofsted inspection. I am appalled that the Headtescher was subjected to rudeness and insensitivity. Intimidation should not be allowed.
However, I know someone who is an Inspector, who is sensitive to the needs of teachers, and who makes every effort to prevent undue stress for Headteachers.
As Mollygo says, the inspecting is variable and definitely needs an overhaul.

If that's your OH, it's been established in previous conversations that he's not an Ofsted inspector and that state and private school inspections are different.

However, I know someone who is an Inspector, who is sensitive to the needs of teachers, and who makes every effort to prevent undue stress for Headteachers

I am bemused that you could extrapolate the following from that statement growstuff:

If that's your OH, it's been established in previous conversations that he's not an Ofsted inspector

I expect Josanne knows more people than just her own DH.

I am not and was not a teacher (thank goodness!) but I have many friends who were and also know two Ofsted Inspectors.
None of them are my DH.

I expect she does, but in the past, she has written about an inspector, who turned out to be her OH and wasn't an OFSTED inspector, but an ISI one.

I have experienced OFSTED and ISI inspections as a teacher and they are very different.

I obviously jumped to the wrong conclusion this time.

Bella23

It has been said Ofsted is in place to inspect. If they find something wrong they should point out measures that could be put in place to rectify. They don't because they haven't got the knowledge to do so.
When I was young the saying went "If you can teach you teach. If you can't you become a manager [head], if you can't manage you become an Inspector". I think it still rings true today.
To leave a daming report with the poor head all over the Christmas holidays knowing she could not tell her staff or start to put what they said was wrong right beggars belief.

OFSTED inspectors are told it's not their roles to suggest improvements. What they do is make judgments according to their tick boxes and leave others to sort it out.

Yes, you are correct about the Independent Schools Inspectorate. A relative who has taught in state and private schools and experienced both Ofsted and ISI inspections confirmed that the latter are far less stressful.

Well good for private schools then if the inspection process is far less stressful!

Though I'm not sure why a comparison needed to enter this discussion in the first place, nor the irrelevant reference to a husband's occupation?

Joseann

Well good for private schools then if the inspection process is far less stressful!

Though I'm not sure why a comparison needed to enter this discussion in the first place, nor the irrelevant reference to a husband's occupation?

I questioned that too, Joseann. Its no-one's business. 😔

It seems to me that the best way to do inspections is to have part-time inspectors who are also working teachers. Of course you need some full-time staff but if most inspections are done by those who are experiencing classrooms a couple of days a week, they would be more relevant.
As a Health Visitor in a Children's Centre, I was subject to both CQC and OFSTED. It felt like neither knew what they were doing, as all of the inspectors were 'out of their field'. I hope that has changed.

PS: I followed this closely and have been very upset by it. However, I must say that, however distressing, taking someone to a specialist hospital without a referral does not mean they will be seen - that is not how the NHS works (I am not critical of a despairing husband) I gather the psychiatric hospital was sympathetic and saw Mrs. Perry quite quickly after a proper referral.
One factor was that she was told to discuss this with no-one. I personally think that she could, in confidence, have told her GP and her psychiatrist, but she felt she couldn't.

I am also struck that the 'inadequate' rating centred around safeguarding. This is an especially sensitive issue, and I have in my working life, found myself quite angry about the way this is sometimes approached. Some 'leads' get appointed with very little experience, parrot what they have been taught on a course, and have no undertanding of how to approach a real situation.
Those of you who worked in safeguarding and knew how difficult it can be - I don't mean you!

Nannarose

It seems to me that the best way to do inspections is to have part-time inspectors who are also working teachers. Of course you need some full-time staff but if most inspections are done by those who are experiencing classrooms a couple of days a week, they would be more relevant.
As a Health Visitor in a Children's Centre, I was subject to both CQC and OFSTED. It felt like neither knew what they were doing, as all of the inspectors were 'out of their field'. I hope that has changed.

Now you're talking Nannarose.
I'll just add this.

One difference is that ISI inspection teams largely consist of practising senior leaders currently working in ISC schools, whereas Ofsted inspectors have not necessarily run a school. This means ISI inspectors are realistic and knowledgeable about the challenges for individual schools and their reports are more nuanced.

The HMI concerned had been a headteacher.

Mamie

The HMI concerned had been a headteacher.

Had been -so out of the system for however long . . .

Joseann

Well good for private schools then if the inspection process is far less stressful!

Though I'm not sure why a comparison needed to enter this discussion in the first place, nor the irrelevant reference to a husband's occupation?

Because in the past you have defended the inspection process and inspectors, but it turned out that you were talking about something different. You have referred to your OH as the reason you know about inspectors, until it turned out that he was (is?) and inspector but not an OFSTED inspector.

In this case, I assumed wrong.

Incidentally, when this particular case was discussed before, you said that it was right that the school was given an "inadequate" grading.

Mamie

The HMI concerned had been a headteacher.

All current OFSTED inspectors have had recent experience as senior school managers and have demonstrated leadership qualities - allegedly.

My daughter used to be an OFSTED HR officer and was responsible for getting rid of loads of inspectors who didn't have classroom or school management experience. She had to scrutinise them - and they didn't like it . At least OFSTED did something right and stopped outsourcing to the likes of Capita.

Joseann

Nannarose

It seems to me that the best way to do inspections is to have part-time inspectors who are also working teachers. Of course you need some full-time staff but if most inspections are done by those who are experiencing classrooms a couple of days a week, they would be more relevant.
As a Health Visitor in a Children's Centre, I was subject to both CQC and OFSTED. It felt like neither knew what they were doing, as all of the inspectors were 'out of their field'. I hope that has changed.

Now you're talking Nannarose.
I'll just add this.

One difference is that ISI inspection teams largely consist of practising senior leaders currently working in ISC schools, whereas Ofsted inspectors have not necessarily run a school. This means ISI inspectors are realistic and knowledgeable about the challenges for individual schools and their reports are more nuanced.

Maybe that explains why the inspection I experienced in a private school was more like a meeting of friends. I guess scratching each other's backs has advantages.

I think that Romola's last sentence is very important. We can't keep teachers and no one seems to be worried about this. Maybe asking those who leave why they quit and if Ofsted features in the answer ...well maybe some work on this might help.

Maybe that explains why the inspection I experienced in a private school was more like a meeting of friends. I guess scratching each other's backs has advantages.

Growstuff, are you saying that all inspections in public schools are like that? Surely that smacks of misconduct?
Perhaps I have misunderstood and you are just being facetious.