Is Rachel Reeves serious?

Oreo

Just more defensive and partisan statements Doodledog
I don’t care what she earns either but as shadow Chancellor I expect her to be well paid, and am guessing her husband is well paid too.In other words she can manage financially.
She will very shortly be living in Downing St!
Your excuses for her silly statement are an insult to those, including me, who really do run a household on the tightest budget imaginable.

How does what RR earns insult you? I just don't understand. And nor do I know whether she 'can manage financially' - how could I without knowing her income and outgoings, which I have no desire or right to do.

What does the fact that if Labour win the GE she will be living in Downing Street have to do with anything? She isn't living there now, and it is now on which the figures are based, not what might happen in a year or so.

I am not making excuses either - I am explaining why I don't think her income matters, and why I think the idea that she has an income of £385k is wildly inaccurate. Not only are you telling people what they can afford, you are telling me my motives, and getting them spectacularly wrong.

You didn't clarify what 'can afford' or 'manage financially' means, incidentally. I'm not nit-picking, but I do think it's important to clarify whether those who make such pronouncements about other people's circumstances mean just surviving or living as they (the pronouncers) do, or quite what it means. How much do you think a politician should live on, and what would you have them do with family money, or savings they accrued before taking power? Would you impose the same constraints on the rest of us, so that nobody has more than they 'need'?

Dinahmo

Maizie I think that RR has to talk as though govt spending is similar to managing a household because so many believe that it is, regardless of how often you, me and others explain that it isn't.

The Tories are gearing up with the dirty tricks. Apparently they have a team investigating all the cases that Starmer dealt with when he was D of PP. Don't ask for a link - my DH told me about this before Christmas and he can't remember where he read it.

People are still referring to the financial situation when Brown lost the election. They still believe that there was no money because of the note left behind for the new Tory Chancellor. Some of them are really silly if they believe that. How do they think we were the 6th? richest country in the world if there was no money?

I think it's good to keep telling people that a government isn't in the slightest bit like a household. I think that people should know that there is more than one way to run an economy, and the rationale behind disposing of the 'household' myth. (However annoying some folks think I am for constantly banging on about it )

The tories are trying to smear Starmer by bringing up unpopular criminal cases for which he was the defence barrister. They are depending on people not knowing about the 'cab rank' rule. Barristers aren't free to pick and choose the criminal cases given to their chambers.

Besides which, they don't defend their clients because they believe they are innocent, they defend them to ensure that the law has been correctly applied and because, under British law, everyone is innocent until they are proved guilty and are entitled to be defended by a barrister.

It's a shame that 'popular opinion' has such a very shaky grasp of how the law works...

If your client insists that they are innocent but you don’t believe they are, you either refuse to continue to act or you tread a very precarious line in order not to mislead the court. The cab rank rule only applies to accepting the case in the first place.

Wouldn't that potentially mean that someone might end up being not represented by a barrister at all, GSM? If every one turned them down?

They have the choice of being properly represented - or representing themselves; a foolish decision. You can’t agree to support a client in a not guilty plea if it’s patently obvious to you that they are lying and guilty.

I don't care what politicians earn so long as they devote their energies to the public good (and pay tax of course).

People are still referring to the financial situation when Brown lost the election. They still believe that there was no money because of the note left behind for the new Tory Chancellor. Some of them are really silly if they believe that. How do they think we were the 6th? richest country in the world if there was no money?

There are plenty of ways that note is interpreted that makes absoulte sense whether we are the 1st, 6th or 106th lwrgest eocnomy.

It could mean capital rich but cash poor, it could mean no money over and above enough to meet immediate needs, which may be extensive, it could mean that future commitments are less than revenue coming in. And those are just the one that occur late of night when I am tired.

In context it probably meant forget your expemditure plans there is not enough money coming in to pay for them on top of everything else.

Regard to the note.

It had always been a tradition for exiting politicians to leave a jokey note for the incoming politician.

True to form the Tories started as they meant to go on.

With a lie.

This is from a Guardian article at the time.

"The former chief secretary to the Treasury, Liam Byrne, has reignited criticism of Labour's stewardship of the economy with a note for his successor which said "there's no money left".
Byrne's note was discovered by David Laws, the Liberal Democrat MP who was appointed by the coalition government to succeed Byrne as No 2 at the Treasury.
It is a convention for outgoing ministers to leave a note for their successors with advice on how to settle into the job. But Byrne's note – which he later said was intended as a private joke – drew attention to Labour's economic record when it was revealed by Laws at a press conference today.
Laws told reporters: "When I arrived at my desk on the very first day as chief secretary, I found a letter from the previous chief secretary to give me some advice, I assumed, on how I conduct myself over the months ahead.
"Unfortunately, when I opened it, it was a one-sentence letter which simply said: 'Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid to tell you there's no money left,' which was honest but slightly less helpful advice than I had been expecting."
The letter recalls a similar note left by Tory Reginald Maudling to his Labour successor James Callaghan in 1964: "Good luck, old cock ... Sorry to leave it in such a mess."

Unfortunately David Laws did not understand the joke. Daft of Liam Byrne to do it in the first place though.

Maisie, it depends on what type of Barrister you want to be, if an honest one, a person of integrity who wants justice for his client of course you couldn't represent anyone you thought to be guilty. As in any other walk of life, there’s corrupt ones, people who will do anything to make money or gain favour.
Monica, I would like your rose tinted spectacles. Can anyone else bring to mind another note like that, it is not a tradition to do that. They messed up, simple. At least own it.

Allsorts

Maisie, it depends on what type of Barrister you want to be, if an honest one, a person of integrity who wants justice for his client of course you couldn't represent anyone you thought to be guilty. As in any other walk of life, there’s corrupt ones, people who will do anything to make money or gain favour.
Monica, I would like your rose tinted spectacles. Can anyone else bring to mind another note like that, it is not a tradition to do that. They messed up, simple. At least own it.

No that is incorrect.

Everyone is entitled to representation at a court of law regardless of their crime, guilt etc. and this is done so through the cab rank rule.

With regard to the note, that is also incorrect, it has been until recently a tradition to leave a jokey not for the incoming minister.

Maybe barristers should only defend nice people. Even criminals may be wrongly accused or fitted up. I don’t think you can criticise barristers for doing their job.

Allsorts

Maisie, it depends on what type of Barrister you want to be, if an honest one, a person of integrity who wants justice for his client of course you couldn't represent anyone you thought to be guilty. As in any other walk of life, there’s corrupt ones, people who will do anything to make money or gain favour.
Monica, I would like your rose tinted spectacles. Can anyone else bring to mind another note like that, it is not a tradition to do that. They messed up, simple. At least own it.

Allsorts if you had read the post above yours you would have found the example for which you were searching.
Reggie Maudling no less....

Obviously trying to bring herself down to the level of the voters. Patronising, as usual.

With the amount of nasty criticism and unjust comments thrown at them I think most politicians deserve every penny they are paid, especially if they are conscientious and work hard. Many of them could earn a lot more in private enterprise. On another note, Labour is not known for its financial management and good luck to you all when they are returned. Hope they are better than our lot.

nanna8

With the amount of nasty criticism and unjust comments thrown at them I think most politicians deserve every penny they are paid, especially if they are conscientious and work hard. Many of them could earn a lot more in private enterprise. On another note, Labour is not known for its financial management and good luck to you all when they are returned. Hope they are better than our lot.

You’re wrong about managing the economy nanna8, Labour historically have managed as well as the Tories.
theconversation.com/labour-are-much-better-at-running-the-economy-than-voters-think-new-research-162368

nanna8

With the amount of nasty criticism and unjust comments thrown at them I think most politicians deserve every penny they are paid, especially if they are conscientious and work hard. Many of them could earn a lot more in private enterprise. On another note, Labour is not known for its financial management and good luck to you all when they are returned. Hope they are better than our lot.

Re - financial management.

I think that the idea that the Tories are good financial managers is only for the gullible tbh nanna8 in the U.K. who read the right wing press, and use little critical thought.

The only finances that they are good at managing are those they have successfully pilfered from the tax payer, everything else has been disastrous. We have never ever had such a high debt level, nor our public finances so badly managed. Everything is falling apart despite paying more into the public coffers than we have ever done. The previous Tory PM before this one we currently have, managed to completely crash the economy within days of her premiership leaving millions still paying inflated mortgage interest rates as a result.

The Tories are disastrous economic managers.

The tories have certainly been disastrous economic managers these past 13 years. They’ve also managed to ruin all our public services

Thanks for the compliment, whitewave. I’ll take it to ❤️

We need to restore trust in government in particular and public servants in general, IMO. It is fashionable for people to take pride in cynicism and sneer at people who disagree, rather than accept that different viewpoints exist and work with that.

I think the past 15 years or so have destroyed public faith in the institutions that are there to serve us, as we have seen them serve themselves for so long. It’s also easier to just write people off as stupid, or bigoted than to listen to what they have to say and try to find common ground, and there is a lot of intellectual laziness around, possibly because it is so easy to access information that will confirm our prejudices.

I really hope that it’s not too late for this to be turned around after the GE, but it will be an uphill struggle.

nanna8

Thanks for the compliment, whitewave. I’ll take it to ❤️

Yes, I thought after I posted it that it reads wrong. I guess (hopefully) you have worked out that my comment was not for those in far flung Antipodes, but was a reflection on the way our right wing media reports, and how many accept the reporting without critical thought.

So my apologies to you.

I do thank God I'm not partisan to any particular party, my overall view is that at some stage those that are, are destined to be disappointed somewhere down the line. I think the Tory tenure has been awful! in so many ways, albeit they had Covid to deal with and I think it's fair to say which ever party who was in government, an enormous amount money would inevitably be added to our national debt as a consequence, but the contracts handed out on a whim to absolute grifters and the sheer lack of scrutiny was inexcusable. Their latest gaffe, of which there are many, to bring back a former prime minister, mired in his own unethical controversy, lobbying for Greensill, all from a PM who at one time stated he'd put an end to lobbying altogether. Cameron had all the hallmarks of a lightweight, career politician who had no convictions whatsoever and now he's back as Lord Cameron

On the other hand, I can't say I would pin all my hopes on a Labour government restoring trust and ethics. I voted for Tony Blair many of us won't forget he lead us into a war on a false premise, he under the auspices of George W, bamboozled the public along with his mouthy spin doctor, Alistair Campbell who at at a later stage had the Iraq dossier changed to fit US Claims. Then there is the black cloud that hangs over the very questionable death of, weapons expert, Dr David Kelly, so many medics disputing that it could have been suicide, or is that so back in the mists of time that it has been forgotten, well certainly by a new generation it will have been.

The other lightweight, and great hope for The Lib Dems, golden boy Nick Clegg, well look where he is now, it's almost laughable how easily some of them can shed their high ideals and allow themselves to be bought by the highest bidder.

Now there is mass indignation across all of the parties about how the sub postmasters/mistresses have been so shockingly treated, something they have all known about for years, but it took the tv programme and the mood of the public for them to fall over themselves in rushing through mass pardoning and compensation, but where were so many of them during the long, long years of Alan Bates campaigning for justice. Well MP James Arbuthnot at least was dogged in putting up a good fight over the years as opposed to Sir Ed for all his blustering now about being mislead, was a major hindrance to the campaign. It took the tv programme to highlight all of that and the absolute rottenness and deception that is often at the core of public life and the two faced collusion on the part of some of the political class.

Whitewavemark2

nanna8

Thanks for the compliment, whitewave. I’ll take it to ❤️

Yes, I thought after I posted it that it reads wrong. I guess (hopefully) you have worked out that my comment was not for those in far flung Antipodes, but was a reflection on the way our right wing media reports, and how many accept the reporting without critical thought.

So my apologies to you.

That’s ok, I usually enjoy most of your posts. Bear in mind we have had a Labor state government who have totally bankrupted the state where I live so I am a tad biased! I don’t usually vote for right wing parties but this time, here, I would consider it if a good candidate was available ( a big ‘if’)

nanna8

Whitewavemark2

nanna8

Thanks for the compliment, whitewave. I’ll take it to ❤️

Yes, I thought after I posted it that it reads wrong. I guess (hopefully) you have worked out that my comment was not for those in far flung Antipodes, but was a reflection on the way our right wing media reports, and how many accept the reporting without critical thought.

So my apologies to you.

That’s ok, I usually enjoy most of your posts. Bear in mind we have had a Labor state government who have totally bankrupted the state where I live so I am a tad biased! I don’t usually vote for right wing parties but this time, here, I would consider it if a good candidate was available ( a big ‘if’)

I don't see what an Australian Labor government did has to do with the actions of UK Labour governments. The two are entirely different, even down to different spelling...

I will, wearily, remind the gullible believers in 'The Note', yet again, that the last Labour government didn't leave an empty Treasury (because that is utterly impossible, for a start) and if it had't been for them most of the population with bank accounts could have lost all the money that was in those accounts because the banks would have gone bust... bankrupt... (banks can go bankrupt, countries with a sovereign currency can't)

The UK is a very rich country though. They can’t be that bad. The migration levels also help the economy despite what some say.