I agree spabbygirsl how anyone can vote Tory if they care about children, disabled people or poorly paid people is beyond me. Or if they are Christian, how can you follow Christ and be a Tory! I'm not of the view that we should should hate all Tories, but on the other hand it is the Tory party members who have enabled this incompetent, selfish and narcisisstic government by voting for Johnson and not standig up to ERG. Even if you were a misguided Brexiter how on earth could vote for such an obviously dishonest person. I suppose its because they get all their 'news' from the Mail. Express, Telegraph etc which left truth behind some time ago.
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Is the Conservative party facing oblivion?
(82 Posts)Danny Kruger, a bank bench MP and founder of the New Conservatives group believes that it is. Here's the article - from the Guardian. It is rather long but nevertheless you may find it interesting.
The Conservatives face “obliteration” at the next election after leaving the country in a worse state than they inherited it in 2010, a senior Tory MP has said, in a stark assessment of the party’s 13 years in government.
Danny Kruger, a leading backbencher and founder of the increasingly influential New Conservatives group, said the Conservatives risked being ejected from power this year having left the country “sadder, less united and less conservative” than they found it.
The comments, which were made both at an event last year and in response to a Guardian inquiry, come just as the prime minister seeks to rally his troops with a hint of tax cuts to come in the budget ahead of an election later this year.
Sunak will host an event in the north-west of England on Monday, where he will urge voters to stick with the Conservatives, saying: “The choice is whether we stick with the plan that is starting to deliver the long-term change our country needs, or go back to square one with the Labour party.”
But the prime minister faces a difficult start to election year, with the possibility of a significant rebellion on Monday over his plan to extract more oil and gas from the North Sea, and another within weeks over the Rwanda bill. Sunak is also likely to have to fight three difficult byelections in Kingswood, Blackpool South and Wellingborough – all of which Labour hope to win.
Speaking to a private event of Tory members organised by the thinktank ResPublica last October, Kruger said: “The narrative that the public has now firmly adopted – that over 13 years things have got worse – is one we just have to acknowledge and admit.”
He added: “Some things have been done right and well. The free school movement that Michael Gove oversaw, and universal credit – and Brexit, even though it was in the teeth of the Tory party hierarchy itself, and mismanaged – nevertheless Brexit will be the great standing achievement of our time in office.
“These things are significant, but, overall I’m afraid, if we leave office next year, we would have left the country sadder, less united and less conservative than when we found it.”
A source at the event passed the comments to the Guardian. When a reporter approached Kruger to ask about them, he said: “This was a conversation among party members in which I made the case for realism and for honesty with the public.”
He added that the rise of the far right in Europe should provide a warning for the Tory party.
“For decades, across the western world, centre-right parties have controlled the institutes of the state – yet nevertheless have presided over a drift away from their stated values and the interests of their voters,” he said.
“Conservatives worldwide have presided over models of mass migration, political correctness and economic short-termism. The British government is making some of the right moves to correct this. But the reaction under way in Europe at the moment is a warning to my party – either we remember the people we work for, or we face obliteration.”
Kruger’s comments reflect widespread pessimism on the Tory benches about the direction of the party and its chances of winning the next election.
As a founder of the New Conservatives, Kruger is a leading light of the socially conservative movement which is urging Sunak to shift further to the right on issues such as immigration. He is one of dozens of Tory MPs who rebelled last year on the Rwanda bill, arguing that it did not do enough to stop legal appeals against deporting asylum seekers to the African country.
His comments about the rise of the far right in Europe are an indication of growing concern on the Tory benches about the rise of Reform UK, the populist party originally established by Nigel Farage as a successor to Ukip.
Polls show Reform has risen from about 5% a year ago to about 9% today, mainly by attracting the kinds of Brexit-supporting former Labour voters whom Boris Johnson managed to win over in 2019.
Kruger’s comments also undermine the prime minister’s attempts to strike a more optimistic tone at the start of the election year. Sunak will say at the PM Connect event on Monday: “But this government has made progress. At the start of this year, we are pointing in the right direction.”
The prime minister is also under pressure from another group of more centrist backbenchers, many of whom share Kruger’s bleak assessment of the party’s electoral outlook but have a very different set of remedies.
The moderate One Nation group has become more vocal in recent months, warning in November that turning to the right risked “falling into an unrecoverable position with most of the voters”. Many of their members are urging the prime minister to keep his focus on the economy and aspiration, rather than moving to the right on issues such as immigration and identity politics.
Damian Green, the chair of the One Nation group, said that Kruger’s diagnosis of the problems facing the party was flawed. “The old saying that it’s the economy, stupid, still applies for general elections,” he said. “That’s where the Conservatives should fight. We need to convince would-be Conservative voters of all kinds if we want to win.”
Always annoys me when they say older voters voted Tory and for Brexit. Brexit has ruined the opportunities for this country and young people. Can’t wait for them to go. They treat the electorate like idiots. Thirteen years of decline and austerity and suffering for a lot of people.
aonk
If the election is won by Labour I wonder how long it will be before there will be critical and sometimes abusive about them? Too many posters are so strongly biased politically that they don’t realise there’s good and bad in both parties. We must pick the one we feel is the better out of a bad lot.
I'll judge labour by what they do if they get in.
As I have the Tories - and I cannot justify voting for them on that basis, regardless of the opposition.
Voting them in again would be a vote in favour of dishonesty and corruption as demonstrated.
Why would I assume another party will be as bad as some weird way of justifying condoning another term of office for the tories?
Anyone who wants to vote Tory has that right, but I can't believe they do so without accepting they are voting specifically for a broken political system.
If you want to change our shoddy politics you have to start by sending the message that what is happening now is not acceptable.
Oblivion? There's always hope...
Grantanow 
Urmstongran
I think they’re toast. They’ve lost the plot.
They don’t seem to appeal to the conservative voters down south and I think they’ve lost the Red Wall now. (Me, for one).
I’m voting Reform. The Tories need to start again with a better leader.
I can’t get behind Sir Ed Davey - for many reasons - and Labour right now (with Blair hovering in the background) is a no-no. Ed Milliband’s green zeal is off putting too.
We (only) produce 1% of the world’s emissions. Why on earth do we have to ‘be a world beater’? Beggars belief. Let’s be more measured, row back a bit and look after our own economy at this perilous time.
I agree, the existing major parties hold no appeal for me.
I don't see why people imagine that Britain can be either a "world beater" or a world leader in any respect at the current time.
We're a small island with little manufacturing capability and at very real risk of losing our hold as a major world financial market. A minority of our population are not prepared to work for their living but expect to be able to call on the benefits system and the NHS constantly, and to live in social housing.
Major reform is called for but clearly the Labour party are unlikely to make adjustments to the benefits system and none of the parties knows how to grasp the nettle of the NHS.
Immigration is something that none of the parties seems willing to tackle for fear of being accused of racism. I'm not against immigration but we should not be taking in people who are neither valid asylum seekers nor have relevant skills to offer. Economic migration is nothing new has benefits for both sides, but something has to be offered in exchange for life in a new country.
Personally, and I won’t be voting Tory, nothing would surprise me either way.
I don’t think anyone can make a prediction given the unreliable voting history and turnout of the British public.
I think many will vote conservative again, I think some will “defect” to Reform (🫣) and I think some “red wall” voters will return to Labour.
Starmer isn’t proving to be popular, though appeals to me, bar his stance on Israel (I favour a complete ceasefire), I believe he’s a centralist and a safe pair of hands, but this only be proven if he ever becomes PM.
I think this govt will make some interesting changes in the March budget (or statement or whatever we are meant to call it now!)
I am quite sure that there are a lot of people who, at present are saying that as previous Tory voters they either will not be voting at all or will be voting for a more extreme right wing party like reform.
However, I am convince that they would need very little to convince them to vote Tory at the next election. You can see how the right wing media is beginning to ramp up the pressure and anti-Labour reporting, which will get more and more as the election nears.
So I do not think that the Tory party is finished.
I agree with Whitewavemark2, whatever people are saying now it is likely that many of them will actually vote Conservative. Hopefully more will emerge from the parties on the extreme right which will reveal them to be less appealing to any but a minority of current Tory voters.
I do hope that people will decide to vote. Any government elected by a smaller electorate than usual is likely to represent the views of less people - this sounds obvious, but is isn't something that non-voters consider.
Whilst many of us don't think that any current party truly offers what we want, if the parties want us to vote for them they will need to modify their offers to attract voters before the next election.
I struggle to think of anything even reasonable that the Conservatives have done. Brexit is/was a disaster and people are slowly seeing this, I cannot see any improvement in education, with teachers now one of the most stressed sections of the workforce, the NHS seems to be dissolving, I don't know what universal credit has done apart from increase distress and poverty, we have had an utterly disastrous 'PM' in Truss and a self-serving, cynical narcissist who has made lying somehow acceptable (Johnson) I am not impressed by Labour, either, nor with 'Green' policies that have left poor people struggling to do their work (ULEZ) As for the Woke nonsense... If there were a party that I could really trust with the NHS and benefits, who espoused fairness for all (not just vocal minorities) got the homeless off the streets and made sensible moves towards Europe I would vote for them. Dream on!
I think we were in this sort of position when Major lost to Blair. Somehow they made it back into power. I expect they will again.
I think the Tories may well win the next election by default because in our two party system the Opposition has nothing different to offer.
Many traditional Labour supporters that I know are extremely disaffected with Starmer’s leadership, and are very conflicted about who to vote for at the next election. I think the Greens will pick up more than a few.
Will traditional disgruntled Tory voters jump ship? I’m not convinced.
Your theory isn’t borne out by the current polls Farzanah. Starmer is currently the second most popular UK politician, beaten only by David Blunkett according to YouGov, and Labour have an average across polls lead of 20%. It could all change, but at the moment they are riding high.
as it stands today if they do not get rid of Sunak and his cronies and have the people elect new MP's then yes they are done for and so is the labour party. we need a huge shake up and new party's in the government to bring the country back of its knees
Polls don’t necessarily follow through to results. People can change their minds and shocks do happen. Not that I am anticipating with joy the continuance of another NeoLiberal Tory term in power with its associated period of Austerity. Mind you, Rachel Reeves has promised similar.
i remember mid 90s listening to a radio 4 prog ,about how the tories could completely die out! i was so hopeful, labour did a fairly good job,apart from the meglamania of blair. I think osbourne /cameron, along with the puppy liberal man,i forgot his name, did so much damage with their austerity nonsense, brutal attacks on the disabled, poor, gig economy,i thought that was enough, then the fiasco of boris and the covid. the tories are like an rusty ship, it should be sent out to sea and sunk!
Oblivion? One can only hope and dream! Chiselling, lying, nasty apologies for human beings (many of the ones in government/parliament, not the poor souls who voted from them having believed the lies). But then again… if the Tories are gone, the vacuum might be filled by Farago, Tice, Banks or poor little Kruger. Aaaaargh.
I caught the last minute of Sunak’s party political broadcast last night. It was very very poor. I can only imagine that someone in Conservative HQ doesn’t want Sunak re-elected.
I’m embarrassed that Kruger was elected in my constituency - I’m not aware he’s done anything of any use since being in government. Hopefully, allying himself with people like Rees-Mogg will cause locals to think twice before voting him back in.
I wish there was a party I could feel confident would run the country in a decent & honest way but sadly, that’s probably a pipe dream.
ronib
I caught the last minute of Sunak’s party political broadcast last night. It was very very poor. I can only imagine that someone in Conservative HQ doesn’t want Sunak re-elected.
I don't think the tories are at all happy with Sunak as PM. The right wing didn't want him, the members didn't want him, he only got the job because the members weren't allowed to vote after the Russ debacle. But they won't try to change the tory leader until after the general election because it would cause too much upheaval in the run up to a GE.
I can't see the tories getting back in because Reform will split the right wing vote. The tories won't be able to trade on Brexit, as they did in 2019, and when you think that they didn't get a majority of votes in 2019, and of the strong likelihood of their vote being split by Reform I think that at worst there could be a hung Parliament but with the majority of parties going to the progressive parties, Green, Lib Dem & Labour, so a centre/ centre left government, even if not a Labour majority, seems inevitable.
Sunak clearly intends to bribe with tax cuts, but are people really going to vote for tax cuts when there are so many problems with all the public services and crumbling infrastructure and the tories seem to have done so much to alienate many sectors of society?
Sorry, should have proof read.
'...majority of parties going to the progressive parties,' should read '...majority of votes going to the progressive parties'
One meme being parroted by the right wing press and repeated by its readers is that they don’t know what Labour stands for.
Well I know what the right wings agenda is, but all I can say about its readers who parrot the same is that they are not paying attention. Week after week labour are outline its intended policies.
Today from Labour we have everything related to children’s health and welfare.
I don't think there will be an outright winner, hung Parliament.
MaizieD one tax anomaly no one is talking about involves the fact that Sunak paid tax of only 22 percent on his quite flamboyant investment income. So working families who go to work are being taxed at I think 68 percent if earnings over £50k re childcare and other people are paying a fraction of that if income is unearned!! Or something like that…. What a sad country we have become.
Yes Whitewave but if they wish to improve health and welfare they have to commit to changing the ideological economic path that the Tories have followed, and Reeves has shown no signs of doing so, in fact the opposite. She is cut from the same cloth.
Will they start by increasing the tax on the rich for example?
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