Katharine Birbalsingh – the head teacher of Michaela Community School.

I agree with what I think Dickens is saying. You don't go giving badly behaved pupils or bullies certain privileges. KB seems to know what works for her school.

The issue of bullying on religious grounds could be kept out of schools by having no religious practices in schools apart from faith schools.
When I was at school in 50s/60s there was an assembly for prayers which 98% attended as all those were Christian.
Now there are any number of children with different religions in one school. By allowing special privileges for one religion others will feel resentment and othered.
This is bound to cause problems between the different groups.

VioletSky We should tackle this issue of the bullying itself, not pick a side but you are picking a side by opting to give over a space to this group who have bullied other Muslims that don't want to join them. Do you really think the bullying of others would cease once they have a room? This school is strictly secular, but obviously allows those female Muslims that want to wear a scarf or hijab to do so, they're not "anti Muslim". If some pupils cannot accept the rules it is for them to change schools, not for the whole school to change.

Callistemon21

How are you going to tackle this particular issue of bullying Violetsky?

I would pull up all children involved and explain to them that each person has a right to their own belief system and that breaking school rules will result in consequences

It is not my job as an adult to pick sides when 2 groups are being unkind to each other, it is my job to ensure all children are safe, happy and able to fully engage with their learning

I see muscles being flexed to see just how much effect a small group of muslims can do to a high profile school.

There is a strategy in all this that has already been effective regarding housing.

Parts of some cities have had red light districts and they were always much cheaper to buy into for obvious reasons.

I have lived on the edge of one of these. and witnessed close up what was to happen.

Muslim buyers bought in whenever they could and as time went on they also built a mosque in the redlight area.
After this a campaign started up based on protecting their women and familes they wanted the redlight area cleansed. The sex workers were moved out to another are far away from their homes and mosque.

It is quite a clever strategy to buy cheaply and also create a neighbourhood that felt right for them.
All possible by working together.

It's not picking aside to ensure that children aren't kneeling on the wet floor outside at break times

It is not picking a side to ensure that children's rights are upheld

All children have the same rights, a primary right is to be safe from harm

VioletSky

Callistemon21
How are you going to tackle this particular issue of bullying Violetsky?

I would pull up all children involved and explain to them that each person has a right to their own belief system and that breaking school rules will result in consequences

It is not my job as an adult to pick sides when 2 groups are being unkind to each other, it is my job to ensure all children are safe, happy and able to fully engage with their learning.

Absolutely.
And when that doesn’t work, with either group, and demands are still made, with bullying involved, what would you do next?

The kneeling and saying of prayers on school property will sadly provoke bullies and those who try to coerce children into joining their prayers.

So why doesn’t this headteacher ban the hijab then?

VioletSky

I think you misunderstand what secular actually means in education...

I think you misunderstand what secular actually means in education..

In what way am I misunderstanding secular education?

... and, specifically, in this particular case?

I am, of course, assuming your post was directed at me - but you didn't make that clear. You frequently drop a comment after various posters have been debating with you without naming the person you're addressing, so we have to guess who it's aimed at.

I thought it was aimed at me Dickens

Then someone quoted the 1944 Education Act re a Christian school assembly which seems rather out-dated and I thought was not easily enforceable now.

I would pull up all children involved and explain to them that each person has a right to their own belief system and that breaking school rules will result in consequences

I think teachers were being bullied too and parents were involved by supporting their children who were bullying others.

It all seems rather more complex than children not being kind to other children.

yes they are children

People here are adults and should be taking a better approach

🤔

I have no idea what you are saying.

Agreed.

vegansrock

So why doesn’t this headteacher ban the hijab then?

At a guess I'd say it's because the whole question is bitterly divisive, and if she attempted to impose such a ban, there would be a huge backlash from some Muslim parents and community leaders which would, inevitably, have a detrimental effect on the school, and its excellent reputation.

The 'intake' of Muslim pupils has increased enormously under KB's headship because of the "positive experience" of Muslim students at the school.

... so, what to do? Deny the chance of an excellent education to these girls - or 'go with the flow'?

This of course is purely guesswork on my part.

Violetsky you seem to be reducing this High Court action to a squabble between children.

It is far more important than that.

Some background:

We won’t know for some time what the outcome of the claim that a London school has broken the law by refusing to allow ritual prayer on its premises will be. But whatever the result, the case neatly exposes the problems of the rights culture we now live in.

The school is Katharine Birbalsingh’s Michaela School in Brent, a non-religious establishment where roughly half the intake is Muslim. Until recently Muslim pupils engaged in a daily prayer ritual. But after this created disorder, unpleasantness and some intimidation of teachers, the governors introduced a blanket ban on all ritual prayer, apparently with the result that calm and order were quickly restored.

This did not satisfy one parent, however. Her daughter has now sought a judicial review, claiming that the ban is discriminatory and infringes her human right to practise her religion.

Of course this does not infringe the child's right to practise her religion.
That is farcical.

The child is perfectly at liberty to practise her religion out of school hours, as are all the children, whatever their faith.

Dickens

vegansrock

So why doesn’t this headteacher ban the hijab then?

At a guess I'd say it's because the whole question is bitterly divisive, and if she attempted to impose such a ban, there would be a huge backlash from some Muslim parents and community leaders which would, inevitably, have a detrimental effect on the school, and its excellent reputation.

The 'intake' of Muslim pupils has increased enormously under KB's headship because of the "positive experience" of Muslim students at the school.

... so, what to do? Deny the chance of an excellent education to these girls - or 'go with the flow'?

This of course is purely guesswork on my part.

A hijab is cultural, not a religious requirement.

From what I am reading a teacher had a brick put through their window, the staff were frightened, it sounds horrendous.
I as I have said am not sure what I feel about this but it is way more complicated than it seems.

People here are voicing their opinions and concerns VS and I see nothing wrong in their approach. Would you like to give examples of the approaches you think could be better?

Callistemon21

^I would pull up all children involved and explain to them that each person has a right to their own belief system and that breaking school rules will result in consequences^

I think teachers were being bullied too and parents were involved by supporting their children who were bullying others.

It all seems rather more complex than children not being kind to other children.

It all seems rather more complex than children not being kind to other children.

Indeed, Callistemon21, indeed. 😕

I know, when I was a teacher in East London, many schools didn't even call the headcovering a hijab anyway. It was just referred to as a scarf and if anyone wanted to wear one, (in dark colours), that was permitted.

Galaxy

From what I am reading a teacher had a brick put through their window, the staff were frightened, it sounds horrendous.
I as I have said am not sure what I feel about this but it is way more complicated than it seems.

The problem I am having with the media coverage is the varying reports. What I mean is that, depending on the political 'stripe' of the paper, there is more emphasis on one 'side' than the other. Which I suppose is inevitable.

I'd just like to read a completely factual account of the whole event(s).

Yes I agree Dickens.
I cant access the Janice Turner article on the issue. I would like to read that.