The Lords have voted against the Rwanda Bill

Curtaintwitcher

This government has wasted so much time and money on this plan, which was never a good idea in the first place.
Just shut the door to migrants, don't accept any more applications for asylum. That is all they need to do.
Send them back to France and let the French deal with the problem.

Please try to understand that sending would-be immigrants back to whichever country they came from will not solve the problem.

No European country can possibly absorb all the immigrants fleeing from climate change, famine or wars any more than the UK can.

Some might just be able to, if the immigrants were prepared to take the jobs offered them. France is in need of agricultural workers and craftsmen prepared to live and work in small villages and towns, but a certain amount of immigrants will not consider this, and try desperately to find accommodation and work either in large cities or in another country.
Great Britain is still really the only place you can go from the north of France, after all, if you turn down the French offers, as Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain and Italy already have all the immigrants they can take.

Germany and Scandinavia are reaching saturation point fast too, quite apart from the fact that a lot of the immigrants are not prepared to try to learn our languages, which rather decreases their potential usefulness in any country.

Shipping these poor people off to Rwanda is and always was an indecent proposal - and you do not need to remind me that Denmark wanted to do the same. I know that. Fortunately EU and the International court in Den Haag vetoed that idea. As far as I remember Britain was also told by the international court that it was no go, but apparently is taking no notice.

As far as I can see, the only solution is for right-minded ccitizens everywhere to demand that politicians re-discover ethical and moral values and abide by them.

Incidentally, as many others do, I support a second house and thought needs reviewing our HoL holds our govts, of any persuasion, to account and has powers of veto. Some in there are ex/PMs and MPs from all political persuasions and have huge amounts of political experience and vision, some members are actually quite normal people who have been “honoured” for services in their own fields or charitable work, they bring with them a wealth of knowledge at many different levels and despite what many you feel and think the HoL isn’t just full of entitled “la di das” do a bit of digging and research and you’ll see what they actually do and who actually sits in there.

www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/

Yipee.

Perhaps they should put the HOL on a flight to Rwanda!

The western countries need to look at why these people want to emigrate to their countries and what can we do as whole to persuade them to want to stay in their own countries. I object to the amount of foreign aid the the gives to countries who seem to be laughing at us all the way to the banks! We should be using that money to invest in businesses, in poor countries or help to make safe countries for people to live in. I truly believe there will be a tipping point and an uprising. Maybe not in our lifetimes but with climate changes, food shortages due to climate change, it will come.

Cossy

Incidentally, as many others do, I support a second house and thought needs reviewing our HoL holds our govts, of any persuasion, to account and has powers of veto. Some in there are ex/PMs and MPs from all political persuasions and have huge amounts of political experience and vision, some members are actually quite normal people who have been “honoured” for services in their own fields or charitable work, they bring with them a wealth of knowledge at many different levels and despite what many you feel and think the HoL isn’t just full of entitled “la di das” do a bit of digging and research and you’ll see what they actually do and who actually sits in there.

www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/

I don't object to a second House but would like to see a more democratic way of them being there rather than the way it is done now. I know how the HOL's works and they type of people who are in there, thank you.

Whatever I’ve thought about the House of Lords in the past they do seem to be the only house acting with any form of conscience these days.

icanhandthemback

Cossy

Incidentally, as many others do, I support a second house and thought needs reviewing our HoL holds our govts, of any persuasion, to account and has powers of veto. Some in there are ex/PMs and MPs from all political persuasions and have huge amounts of political experience and vision, some members are actually quite normal people who have been “honoured” for services in their own fields or charitable work, they bring with them a wealth of knowledge at many different levels and despite what many you feel and think the HoL isn’t just full of entitled “la di das” do a bit of digging and research and you’ll see what they actually do and who actually sits in there.

www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/

I don't object to a second House but would like to see a more democratic way of them being there rather than the way it is done now. I know how the HOL's works and they type of people who are in there, thank you.

A second House must be independent of party, IMO. By all means have a few 'partisans' but there should be a good balance with non affiliated members, too.

I don't like the idea of a fully elected second chamber, just look how the US second chamber can stymie the President if they are a different party from them. I'd get rid of the hereditaries and the bishops and have some appointed and some elected members.

Do we abolish the peerage, too.

MaizieD

Bang on! It would be a disaster to emulate the USA system, which is exactly what would happen if people were elected in the same way as they are to the HoC, a big majority would simply mean no way of veto and we might as well not have a second house!

sparkynan

The western countries need to look at why these people want to emigrate to their countries and what can we do as whole to persuade them to want to stay in their own countries. I object to the amount of foreign aid the the gives to countries who seem to be laughing at us all the way to the banks! We should be using that money to invest in businesses, in poor countries or help to make safe countries for people to live in. I truly believe there will be a tipping point and an uprising. Maybe not in our lifetimes but with climate changes, food shortages due to climate change, it will come.

Without wishing to be in any way patronising it’s fairly obvious why people seek asylum.

War, famine, political imprisonment, sexual discrimination, freedom of speech, sexual orientation. These are just a few of the reasons people wish to leave their own homelands.

Not all of these countries are poor but many many of them still have what some of us would consider archaic laws towards women’s and LBGQT rights, the western world cannot tell other countries governments which laws they should and should not pass. Take the Emirate countries, in some it’s still illegal to be openly gay.

Many people in the western world migrate between countries and many work in countries from where some migrates come. Plenty of Brits work and live quite happily in Arab countries and don’t fall foul of discrimination, white, heterosexual middle class people rarely encounter discrimination.

In a perfect world everyone would live in a safe country and be able to be open and flourish, the reality is this doesn’t happen. We are lucky, simply by an accident of birth, to live in a relatively tolerant country and be free to express ourselves in any way within our laws. Many many people, through no fault of their own, don’t enjoy such freedoms.

Pammie1

I believe they’re set to do the same with the bill to monitor the bank accounts of benefit claimants.

It won’t harm anything. DWP and HMRC already have the right to access bank accounts where they suspect fraud, this new bill just goes further and makes it ok to routinely check, I very much doubt hey have the manpower to do all the checks on how benefits are being spent, thought imo this is a step too far. Though, at any time, DWP can ask claimants to produce bank statements from all known held bank accounts.

Cossy

Pammie1

I believe they’re set to do the same with the bill to monitor the bank accounts of benefit claimants.

It won’t harm anything. DWP and HMRC already have the right to access bank accounts where they suspect fraud, this new bill just goes further and makes it ok to routinely check, I very much doubt hey have the manpower to do all the checks on how benefits are being spent, thought imo this is a step too far. Though, at any time, DWP can ask claimants to produce bank statements from all known held bank accounts.

There won’t be a human doing the checking. And DWP only have authority to access bank accounts where fraud is suspected. This gives them the power to access any claimants’ ’ account whether or not fraud is suspected. The banks will use artificial intelligence bots programmed to look for basic breaches of benefit rules, with no nuance. So Joe Bloggs whose family sent him £50 for his birthday could well find his benefit stopped and have DWP investigating him when he’s actually done nothing wrong. It’s an insidious creep on our privacy and if it’s allowed to go ahead, soon it won’t just be benefit claimants, it will be all of us.

Years ago the DWP (then social security) accused me of fraud; they harassed me for money they said I had taken. I knew I hadn't and refused to make a statement other than, "I have not had the money and if you would like to write to my solicitor explaining exactly what you think I have had along with how, I will make a further statement." Eventually they took me to a tribunal and could not provide anything to show I had had the money saying that the records had been destroyed in a fire. The case was thrown out and the DWP were torn off a strip by the Tribunal Chair. Had this happened with the legislation they want, the DWP would have had access to my bank accounts and I would have had no say in the matter. They wouldn't have found any money but it would be an intrusion on my privacy.

Yes, on reflection I agree that routinely checking bank accounts is an invasion of privacy. However having had first hand experience of DWP systems (& sadly often appalling staff) I think it will be a very long time before their systems are this sophisticated.

icanhandthemback What a horrible experience.

Pammie1 It won’t be the odd £50 they will look for, it will be regular cash payments in. Sadly, since Covid, there has been increased, quite serious, fraud in different areas of benefits, including PIP.

Nowhere near as huge as tax fraud though.

Imo this is all red mist to do nothing whilst they amass an army of refugees to aid ⛑️ in future requirements to be considered by our leaders including Parliament, WEF, WHO.

Salsa8680

Imo this is all red mist to do nothing whilst they amass an army of refugees to aid ⛑️ in future requirements to be considered by our leaders including Parliament, WEF, WHO.

Not quite sure I understand this

Care to explain?

Listen to what Ken Clarke had to say.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMD8ulY6bWU
Meanwhile the PM has jokingly had a £1k bet with Piers Morgan about whether the Rwanda plan will come to fruition. Who is the statesman here?

Betting on sending vulnerable people to a dangerous country is obscene.

Salsa8680

Imo this is all red mist to do nothing whilst they amass an army of refugees to aid ⛑️ in future requirements to be considered by our leaders including Parliament, WEF, WHO.

Oh dear me.

Casdon

Listen to what Ken Clarke had to say.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMD8ulY6bWU
Meanwhile the PM has jokingly had a £1k bet with Piers Morgan about whether the Rwanda plan will come to fruition. Who is the statesman here?

We must try to democratise our country to move away from an "elective dictatorship"

Grandmabatty

Betting on sending vulnerable people to a dangerous country is obscene.

Well if a certain person had been sent to Rwanda, a woman and her two young daughters wouldn’t be in hospital with life changing injuries…

GrannyGravy13

Grandmabatty

Betting on sending vulnerable people to a dangerous country is obscene.

Well if a certain person had been sent to Rwanda, a woman and her two young daughters wouldn’t be in hospital with life changing injuries…

It’s not okay to send criminals to a country which has signed up to take people who can play a full part in the development of their country though is it, that’s not what the Rwanda deal is allegedly for?

18:35Grandmabatty

Betting on sending vulnerable people to a dangerous country is obscene.

I hope Sunak wins his bet. Most of the so called asylum seekers/economic migrants/illegals who have paid thousands of pounds to people smugglers to get to England by dinghy are hardly vulnerable are they let's be honest here

GrannyGravy you are correct, but then again, if our asylum system was fit for purpose, that criminal would have been deported long ago.

maddyone

GrannyGravy you are correct, but then again, if our asylum system was fit for purpose, that criminal would have been deported long ago.

Totally agree 👍🏻

I am just appalled that any -tyke^ can claim to have seen the light of the Lord, get baptised and use that as their ticket to remain

The asylum seekers are obviously being told how to get round the U.K. asylum laws.