Conscription

I agree. Testosterone fuelled aggression causes conflict.

Keeper1

Maybe people will feel differently if it means living under Russia or China’s rule.

What would Russia or China want with the UK? War and occupation is frequently about access to resources. We don't have any resources in sufficient quantity to be attractive.

I also doubt that either country. Russia in particular, has the capability to subjugate the whole of Europe, which they would have to do, I think, to keep the UK under control...

Apart from that I have to ask "What is the [expletive deleted] point of war?" It's all willie waving and alpha males, isn't it...

Maybe people will feel differently if it means living under Russia or China’s rule.

...and so did we!

Pulling out of Afghanistan was a bad decision by Trump when it was settled (mainly) and costing little.

It was an entirely political move.

Biden however executed it badly in my opinion.

Traditionally The USA had policies not to get involved in war in Europe, which is why they didn’t join the WW1 and WW11 at the beginning. Things have moved on however with United Nations and NATO and for the US to pull out can have dire results such as in Afghanistan - oh that was Biden.

Perhaps we need conscription or rather in some training sessions but can we afford that? Investing in technology, something we’ve always been good at is probably the best option but again needs money.

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

The wrong time to introduce the idea of conscription it seems from social media

People struggling, think that the government has little time for them and their struggles so the reply can be summed up like this

“We starve you, freeze you, exploit you, repeatedly infect you, steal your pensions, remove your opportunities, saddle you with debt, deny you housing, gaslight you, demonise you ....

Oh, and by the way, will you lay down your life for us”

First you need to treat your citizens with respect before asking them to lay down their lives for a country where only the rich seem to benefit.

^Asked about Gen Sanders’ remarks, Rishi Sunak’s official spokesperson said “hypothetical scenarios” about potential future conflicts were “not helpful”. When asked if he agreed with the general, the spokesperson replied simply “no”.^

The generals should never ever play a part in politics. They did so before the WW1 with disastrous results and a needless war, which in turned spawned the fascist dictator and the horror of WW2 - really a continuation of WW1.

University paid for - no student debt but a salary whilst a student.

I don't think the pay is poor.

Army:
£18,00 for a new recruit, £23,000 for a private.
£28,800 for officers in training

Comparable across the forces.

Accommodation and keep is charged unless deployed.

Maybe we should pay our soldiers more to aid recruitment.

Whitewavemark2

The wrong time to introduce the idea of conscription it seems from social media

People struggling, think that the government has little time for them and their struggles so the reply can be summed up like this

“We starve you, freeze you, exploit you, repeatedly infect you, steal your pensions, remove your opportunities, saddle you with debt, deny you housing, gaslight you, demonise you ....

Oh, and by the way, will you lay down your life for us”

First you need to treat your citizens with respect before asking them to lay down their lives for a country where only the rich seem to benefit.

Asked about Gen Sanders’ remarks, Rishi Sunak’s official spokesperson said “hypothetical scenarios” about potential future conflicts were “not helpful”. When asked if he agreed with the general, the spokesperson replied simply “no”.

It’s probably a sort of blackmail scenario for more money for the armed forces.I think there should be more spent on beefing things up.
We all know that in times of war conscription happens, and it may happen, but we are in NATO so are a small cog in a big wheel and our regular servicemen and servicewomen will play their part on our behalf.In the event of NATO countries being in an all out war with Russia then we would all want to help in whatever way was needed.Or most of us would I should think.
It’s such a long time since we have been in an all out war situation that it seems dreadful to think about, but of course it could happen at any time.
In this particular case tho I really believe it’s more about needing more to be spent on defence.

I wouldn't want my grandsons to make up for the shortfall caused by the Tories in the armed forces.
As NATO are preparing for conflict with Russia in the coming years there needs to be recruitment now not conscription later and more funding for defence rather than wasting money on the Rwanda project.

As far as I am concerned, the government has put us in this position, ctting back on anything they get their hands on but yet permitting the unelected toffs in the House of Lords to be paid large sums of money just to turn up and paying people in government jobs a lot of money in wages.

The government should cut back on their meetings and flying all over the world to attend them when we are in the age of technology as they could join meetings sitting at their office desk on ZOOM.

We have the homeless, immigrants etc. etc. will they be called up to fight, I don't think so because the government don't know who they are. The only people to be called up will be the people who pay their dues to society.

This is the Governments mess, let them get off their backsides and join the forces, but then again they will join the forces sitting behind a desk out of arms way.

I hate the idea of any plan to conscript but at the end of the day if we were attacked it seems we may not have the manpower to withstand lengthy attacks so what’s the answer? Allow ourselves to be over run? I don’t know what the answer would be if the unthinkable should happen.

The wrong time to introduce the idea of conscription it seems from social media

People struggling, think that the government has little time for them and their struggles so the reply can be summed up like this

“We starve you, freeze you, exploit you, repeatedly infect you, steal your pensions, remove your opportunities, saddle you with debt, deny you housing, gaslight you, demonise you ....

Oh, and by the way, will you lay down your life for us”

First you need to treat your citizens with respect before asking them to lay down their lives for a country where only the rich seem to benefit.

The idea of a nuclear deterrent is to prevent a global war, with missiles that can hit any target there is no other defence.
A regional war as we have in Ukraine is different it takes both sides to gear up, increasing the destruction until one side or the other gives in. In the past the US and others have decided to step in and help one side, a few they have won, mostly they havn't helped.

Russia is the immediate threat to Europe, until Ukraine they were relatively acquiescent until Ukraine wanted closer ties with the west. That has proved very costly, so far we have not fully backed up their ambitions, maybe it would have been better to tell Ukraine to stay neutral from the start

Doodledog

Callistemon21

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I suspect that there is a lot of that in this announcement. Plus, if things were so bad that someone like me had to be called up we may as well give up.

Any national service would probably have to be to keep the forces going, so intelligence, manufacturing, food production and so on. But it needn’t stop there. It could extend to socially beneficial services such as happened during Covid, or other areas that weren’t possible then for reasons of health.

We have a mental health crisis, and problems with fitness and obesity - maybe getting the population fitter is a good idea regardless of a possible war?

A big part of me resists the idea of making something like this compulsory, but there will always be people who expect others to do things so they don’t have to, so maybe it should be? I repeat - I am musing really. I certainly don’t have a plan, not that anyone would take notice of it if I did.

Actual conscription to fight is such a frightening thought. I hope that will never happen again, but if the US refuses to defend us, there is no possibility of an EU army to do it, and Russia/China/North Korea attacks, what do we do?

Actual conscription to fight is such a frightening thought. I hope that will never happen again, but if the US refuses to defend us, there is no possibility of an EU army to do it, and Russia/China/North Korea attacks, what do we do?

Indeed, what do we do?

If Starmer wins the next election and Trump becomes President... as Rafael Behr says in the G, "It’s hard to imagine the vindictive despot and the former human rights lawyer enjoying a ‘special relationship’

... He (Trump) has threatened to pull the US out of Nato, and is reported to have said that he would not come to Europe’s defence if it came under attack. He is an admirer of Vladimir Putin. In trade and diplomacy, threat is his only negotiating tool. He thinks laws make no demands of him but can be used as weapons against rivals."

Food for thought. It will probably keep me awake for some time.

Some sort of National service would be a good idea imo. Try to instill a bit of discipline, national pride and camaraderie in our young. If we don’t do something of the sort now I don’t think we have any hope of recruiting enough to the armed forces should we need them. I wouldn’t necessarily want an exclusively military training for young people just something that got them off their games consoles and taught them how to pull together as a team. As for the rest of us I think alot of people would pull their weight in a crisis, though knitting socks might be my limit.

Callistemon21

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I thought this too.
We have cut back on our defence so far that military personnel have been warning us for years that we are actually no longer able to defend ourselves should the need arise.
The first thing that should happen is that we should increase expenditure on our armed forces so that we could at least have the capability to defend ourselves if need be.
It is the first responsibility of government to ensure the protection of the public.

We live in a very different world now than 1939 as one poster upthread mentioned. Someone in the past of whom I was very fond volunteered as soon as war was declared in September 1939. He felt it was his duty. He took a bullet in his chest while on active service and never recoved his full health. He died prematurely.

There is no longer the same respect and deference for authority, and honour and duty have somehow become dirty words, with connotations of colonialism. Young people now are far better educated and far more questioning than their forebears. I doubt that many of them would willingly serve as "cannon fodder".

Our generation has already done enough for this country. Certainly I have. I wont be volunteering to do anything.

Callistemon21

"Don't tell them your name *Doodledog!!"

I missed that, Pike!

Loose lips sink ships, you know

Callistemon21

"Don't tell them your name *Doodledog!!"

Well, that did make me LOL

We'll send General Sanders.

Sorry, I might be wrong, but I think he's trying to make a name for himself before he retires, having been passed over for the top job a few years ago.

Callistemon21

The numbers of Armed Forces have been cut back drastically over the years, with more cuts forecast.

Perhaps this is a warning by the Head of the Armed Services that proposed Government cutbacks would be a foolish move.

I suspect that there is a lot of that in this announcement. Plus, if things were so bad that someone like me had to be called up we may as well give up.

Any national service would probably have to be to keep the forces going, so intelligence, manufacturing, food production and so on. But it needn’t stop there. It could extend to socially beneficial services such as happened during Covid, or other areas that weren’t possible then for reasons of health.

We have a mental health crisis, and problems with fitness and obesity - maybe getting the population fitter is a good idea regardless of a possible war?

A big part of me resists the idea of making something like this compulsory, but there will always be people who expect others to do things so they don’t have to, so maybe it should be? I repeat - I am musing really. I certainly don’t have a plan, not that anyone would take notice of it if I did.

Actual conscription to fight is such a frightening thought. I hope that will never happen again, but if the US refuses to defend us, there is no possibility of an EU army to do it, and Russia/China/North Korea attacks, what do we do?