Will Israel comply to the ICJ ruling?

Glorianny

Sadly I think that despite there being so much evidence historically that you cannot suppress forever a people, and they will continue to fight, no matter how much you oppress them or how many you kill, Israel is not going to learn the lesson.
Which means more deaths on both sides.
I've no desire to see the extremist element of Hamas gain power. But what is happening now will only act as a recruiting agent for them. People who have nothing to lose turn to extreme measures. Countries which have a strong, successful economies have people with moderate beliefs.

I completely agree with this.

Likewise bombing the Houthis is not achieving the stated aims, but raising their profile and support.

Modern Israel came into existence on 14 May 1948 as a polity to serve as the homeland for the Jewish people. It was also defined in its declaration of independence as a "Jewish state", a term that also appeared in the United Nations Partition Plan for British Palestine in 1947.

This was on tv the other day. I watch and listen to s lot of different news media so not sure which channel but it’s what I have always thought is the grand plan.

merlotgran

^I notice with huge alarm that the Israeli government is calling for settlers to settle in Gaza and for Palestinians to be “removed^

Do you have any links to this information?

I’m not doubting you but I would like to read more about it.

Article in the Guardian -today.

It will be on- line

I notice with huge alarm that the Israeli government is calling for settlers to settle in Gaza and for Palestinians to be “removed

Do you have any links to this information?

I’m not doubting you but I would like to read more about it.

Whitewavemark2

I notice with huge alarm that the Israeli government is calling for settlers to settle in Gaza and for Palestinians to be “removed”.

I very much hope that the Israeli citizens will tolerate no such thing.

I expected and feared this.

Anniebach

Religion in Israel is manifested primarily in Judaism, the ethnic religion of the Jewish people. The State of Israel declares itself as a "Jewish and democratic state" and is the only country in the world with a Jewish-majority population (see Jewish state).

You are muddling the Jewish religion and the state of Israel. They are not the same as the majority of those of Jewish faith will tell you.

I notice with huge alarm that the Israeli government is calling for settlers to settle in Gaza and for Palestinians to be “removed”.

I very much hope that the Israeli citizens will tolerate no such thing.

Anniebach

Religion in Israel is manifested primarily in Judaism, the ethnic religion of the Jewish people. The State of Israel declares itself as a "Jewish and democratic state" and is the only country in the world with a Jewish-majority population (see Jewish state).

The state of Israel can call itself anything it likes.
Many Jewish people are appalled by its actions and are protesting, their voices matter.
Very Orthodox Jews have never accepted the state.

Religion in Israel is manifested primarily in Judaism, the ethnic religion of the Jewish people. The State of Israel declares itself as a "Jewish and democratic state" and is the only country in the world with a Jewish-majority population (see Jewish state).

Anniebach

suppress ! Pogroms in Russia , Holocaust in Germany , anti semitism in every town in U.K.

Those are offenses against Jews Anniebach.
I'm talking about Israel. It's important to recognise the difference.

suppress ! Pogroms in Russia , Holocaust in Germany , anti semitism in every town in U.K.

Sadly I think that despite there being so much evidence historically that you cannot suppress forever a people, and they will continue to fight, no matter how much you oppress them or how many you kill, Israel is not going to learn the lesson.
Which means more deaths on both sides.
I've no desire to see the extremist element of Hamas gain power. But what is happening now will only act as a recruiting agent for them. People who have nothing to lose turn to extreme measures. Countries which have a strong, successful economies have people with moderate beliefs.

Lilyflower the IDF cannot afford to stop before Hamas is defeated. How can this happen? Hamas is not merely a group of people in Gaza, it’s an ideology, not solely confined in Gaza. Originated from the Muslim Brotherhood.

The Bob Dylan song springs to mind Blowin’ in the Wind. Yes and how many deaths will it take til he knows, that too many people have died?

Glorianny, thank you for posting the ectr/eu link. I feel so involved in this crisis & so desperate for the Palestinians, it is good to have some reasoned analysis about Hamas & the background to the attacks. I have seen some of the most vile rhetoric about Palestinians online since this started that I've ever seen about any group in my lifetime & if I try to give anyone facts & statistics that don't fit with Israel's narrative & their take on things, they just say they're made up.

The IDF cannot afford to stop before Hamas is defeated. If they do Hamas, a terrorist group dedicated to wiping out the state of Israel, and who on 7th October murdered, raped and tortured innocent Israelis, will take it as a sign of weakness and redouble their efforts.

Hamas has used the population of Gaza as stooges to further their aims. Despite the fact that the IDF makes more effort to avoid citizen bloodshed than any army on earth it serves the purposes of Hamas to make Israel look culpable and the terrorist group welcomes Palestinian misery for propaganda purposes. Hamas used aid money for the Gazans to arm itself and is funded by the pariah state of Iran.

Hamas is worth billions.

Golly so many inaccuracies again.
The Rafah crossing is closed because it requres the permission of Israel to be opened. Lorries full of aid were kept waiting there because Israel would not agree to it opening. It is located on the Egypt–Palestine border. Under a 2007 agreement between Egypt and Israel, Egypt controls the crossing but imports through the Rafah crossing require Israeli approval
If you have evidence of Israeli aid post your link to it.
actionaid.org/news/2024/essential-aid-including-food-and-medical-supplies-prevented-entering-gaza-23-million
Children are having limbs amputated without anaesthetic because there isn't any.

This is a reasoned and comprehensive assessment of Hamas, its links with Iran and the failure to foster the more moderate factions which developed. ecfr.eu/article/iran-hamas-and-islamic-jihad-a-marriage-of-convenience/#:~:text=Today%2C%20Iran%20provides%20support%20to

Another good and considered post Candelle.
I think your final paragraph is especially important and true. It’s made me think that it’s important in more ways than one that Israel continue until they have crushed the capability of Hamas, which is their stated aim, alongside freeing the hostages, if any are still alive and have not already been murdered or killed in the bombing.

Candelle I have considered what you have said in your final paragraph, and agree.

Callistemon21

Thank you GrannyGravy

That report doesn't worry you one jot, then Glorianny? You are justifying their actions by saying they are the fault of Israel and that they did some charity work?

I 'm not justifying any actions simply explaining the context.
But if charity work is necessary then surely you have to ask why it's needed.
Otherwise it means states are entitled to deprive people of the means to earn a living, exile them from their homeland and restrict their movements and everything is fine because charity will pick up the pieces.
Israel has long tried to find a reason to dismiss or denigrate the work done in Gaza and in fact refuses to recognise the Palestinian people whose ancestors they evicted as refugees.
But if you were working amongst an oppressed people and you see them deprived of their freedoms and kept in poverty would you just think giving them aid was enough?
If you work for a charity and your cousin joins Hamas is that your fault? Does it affect the work you do?
This is simply an attempt by Israel to draw attention away from the killing and war crimes.

Apologies, unfortunately I do not have time to find each poster and my comments are rather random but each is in response to one written here.

I do feel that many posters here feel that this conflict is very simple: Hamas-good, Israel-bad.

Yes, poor Palestine has taken an almighty pounding but why? This is because Hamas has its fighters, command centres, rocket launchers etc., etc., embedded in residential buildings. They have gambled that if their people die in large numbers, they will only gain sympathy from the world. True.

In most counties, warfare is committed from army bases never in the middle of a huge conglomeration of people but the bigoted do not care. No matter how many times this point is brought up it is ignored here. Hamas knew exactly what they were doing and people here have swallowed it all - nasty Israel taking out rocket-launchers in the building over there... Sorry, but it is hard to swallow the ridiculous notion of people complaining that Israel has bombed Gaza to the ground when it has used targeted strikes. Yes, those strikes were in residential districts but please, tell me what Israel was supposed to do as the rockets rained down?

Israel has take steps to try to minimise destruction but in such a built-up area it has been difficult. Israel could not leave standing any building that contained a method/capability to fire at it. Israel has, by way of drones, a capability to check who is around a building to be struck. It is not, of course, perfect but it is the best it could do, fighting against people who do not care about their own population. Please look closely at the footage on TV, Gaza is not by all means a complete bomb site. Yes, of course there is terrible destruction (see paragraph above) but many buildings are standing. It just does not make good news.

Yes, Israel does control food, water and power in Gaza. Why? It is beyond me that some people do not think why. It is because Hamas, as governors of Gaza have not had or have been working to, the capability to provide for their own people. Without Israel, Gazans would starve.

I agree that President Netanyahu is difficult but many many Israelis do not support him. Unfortunately, right now, Israel needs a strong leader.

Has anyone thought that Gaza should have the backing and support of many nearby extremely wealthy Arab countries but ... these have not been forthcoming in terms of aid of any description. All very quiet. Why? Ideas?

Why have the Egyptians not helped? Why is their Rafah crossing closed? No poster every answers my queries.

The person who thought that Israel did not provide aid to Gaza is wrong. I have previously listed last Sunday's total of aid: from Israel to Gaza. I have heard that it is the Hamas soldiers who control what the people actually receive and are unmoved by the starving. Aid has come in to Gaza but needs distributing. Do many countries offer aid to an enemy in the middle of a war which they did not begin?

There were talks at the weekend in Paris between the US, Israel, Qatar and Egypt and were described as 'constructive'. Further talks will resume later this week.

The issue of hostage/prisoner swap was discussed. Previously Hamas wanted 3 prisoners released for every child or female hostage, however that has now changed to a demand for 200-300 prisoners for every female hostage. During the last swap, Hamas had many convicted murderers released. Nice.

Have you considered that Israel is actually also fighting for you and me? Alongside, with Hamas, are Islamic Jihad. They do not like our democratic values or our Western lifestyle.....

maddyone it’s antisemitism disguised as antizionism

Callistemon21

Thank you GrannyGravy

That report doesn't worry you one jot, then Glorianny? You are justifying their actions by saying they are the fault of Israel and that they did some charity work?

Yes Callistemon, the actions of Hamas are being justified, and Israel is apparently to blame. Why am I not surprised? This blatant antisemitism is part of the problem. The Israelis have nowhere to go, which is why they returned to their homeland after the holocaust, determined to give the Jews a safe place to live. There were already Jews living there, some never left despite the efforts of the Arabs to displace them and drive them out.

GrannyGravy13

A précis of The Wall Street Journals front page.

Thank you GrannyGravy.
Very sad, but not at all surprising. In fact I would have been surprised if the figure of twelve was correct. It has been reported many times that many Palestinians support, or are part of Hamas, so I repeat, not at all surprising.

Thank you GrannyGravy

That report doesn't worry you one jot, then Glorianny? You are justifying their actions by saying they are the fault of Israel and that they did some charity work?