The PM continues to demonstrate amazingly poor taste!

Casdon

Your personal agenda is one that I don’t understand, but I reported what I saw. This thread isn’t a personal battle for us to argue who is right and who is not. All I will say is that from the beginning I haven’t changed my stance, I made no remarks to contradict Starmer’s part in it, and I’ve been clear Sunak provoked him. The end, from me at least.

That’s fine Casdon. The end from you at least.
I didn’t change my stance either.
You insist that Sunak is responsible for Starmer introducing Brianna’s name.
I hold Starmer responsible for what comes out of his own mouth.

Your personal agenda is one that I don’t understand, but I reported what I saw. This thread isn’t a personal battle for us to argue who is right and who is not. All I will say is that from the beginning I haven’t changed my stance, I made no remarks to contradict Starmer’s part in it, and I’ve been clear Sunak provoked him. The end, from me at least.

Unlike you I acknowledged early on in the thread, that Sunak shouldn’t have added that to the list, but I’ve made clear already, but that does not absolve Starmer in any way for his part in the exchange.

Mollygo

Casdon, As I put on here back on 8.2.24
Not a good time for Sunak to have mentioned that alongside all the other flip flops, but Starmer was in the wrong here.

He made it about Brianna.
*He chose to make it about something that could upset Brianna’s mum if she was there.*

Sunak was the instigator. He started an attack on Starmer for an apparent U-turn on his definition of a woman — a common culture war turn he uses regularly in his pre prepared speeches, aimed at Starmer’s position that the “very small number” of people who identify as a different gender from the one they were born with should be respected.
This was seconds after Starmer had acknowledged the “unwavering bravery” of Esther Ghey, who he was under the impression was watching on from the public gallery in the Commons, although it was later discovered she was late arriving so wasn’t actually there.
If it suits your narrative you carry on blaming Starmer wholly for his response, I won’t. I don’t like what he said, as I’ve made clear already, but that does not absolve Sunak in any way for his part in the exchange.

Mollygo

Casdon, As I put on here back on 8.2.24
Not a good time for Sunak to have mentioned that alongside all the other flip flops, but Starmer was in the wrong here.

He made it about Brianna.
*He chose to make it about something that could upset Brianna’s mum if she was there.*

No he didn’t! Starmer did!

Casdon, As I put on here back on 8.2.24
Not a good time for Sunak to have mentioned that alongside all the other flip flops, but Starmer was in the wrong here.

He made it about Brianna.
He chose to make it about something that could upset Brianna’s mum if she was there.

Sunak is on GBNEWS tonight at 8pm. Taking questions from the British public. A bit like ‘Question Time’ in the good old days.

Should be interesting.

I’m saying it was six of one and half a dozen of the other. I’m not getting overly hysterical about an exchange which did neither of them any credit, but ultimately makes no difference to anything. I’m not banging any drums.

Casdon, you are saying you excuse Starmer (a barrister, well accustomed to dealing with tricky situations) for losing his cool and misjudging and dragging Brianna’s name into the situation where it had not been mentioned, but you don’t excuse Sunak for listing Starmer’s u-turns?

Whatever!

I’d have been impressed if I believed Sunak had deliberately mentioned that, knowing that Starmer would lose his cool and misjudge rather than just listing it along with the others.

Sadly, I don’t.

Or you could try seeing it as it was Mollygo, Sunak hamming a pre-scripted speech with cloth ears, and Starmer losing his cool, and misjudging his retort’s impact on some, although apparently not including Brianna’s parents. It is what it is.

I guess I’m blind then.
Am I supposed to see RS trying to drag KS down-in which case he succeeded because KS jumped in and made it about Brianna.

Or am I supposed to see KS scoring points off RS by unforgivably mentioning Brianna’s name when he knew her mum was in the house.
Tricky really.

Who can't see what? It's impossible to answer posts like that, as the meaning is so obscure.

mabon2

It is nothing to do with poor taste, he had good "taste", it is thoughtlessness and disgraceful demeanour in an attempt to drag Kier Starmer down.

There are none so blind as those who cannot see….

Personally I think PMQs are a waste of time. All politicians try to point score against one another.

MaizieD good posts

Oh, and I meant to say that they wouldn't cause so much hardship that it would put people off the green agenda.

maddyone

I’m not even sure that the green pledge is all that popular with everyday people. When they realise the vast cost to themselves, they tend to become a little less keen. We have got to get there, net zero, and as technology develops, which it is doing quickly now, the cost will become less. But when we’re talking about electric cars that cost ten or more thousands than a petrol car, and lose value more quickly, and heat pumps costing upwards of fourteen thousand pounds, people often become less enthusiastic. I don’t think the rowing back on green pledges will do Starmer much harm.

I think it depends on how they go about it.

Accelerating development of green energy technology, subsidising improved insulation in domestic properties, subsidising heat pump purchase and installation, a decent scrappage scheme for replacing high emission vehicles, while it would appear to be expensive, would

a) help to repay itself through increased tax take (not tax rises but the increase in income tax from employment, VAT and company taxation)
and

b) we need to be moving as fast as possible to eliminate fossil fuels. That bullet has to be bitten and we might as well get on with it.

Seriously how is a Labour govt expected to rebuild the nhs and public services which have been devastated over 13 years

Even if Labour, despite their assertion that the tories have made a complete mess of the economy (which is true) and the need for 'hard choices', invest a lot of money in public services and the Green economy, it will take years for that investment to take fruit because of the need to create a skilled workforce to make the the needed changes.

I wouldn't expect any really noticeable benefits to be apparent until well into a first term of office and throughout a second. Though sorting out public sector pay straight away would help growth to start increasing, rather than stagnating as it is now.

It is nothing to do with poor taste, he had good "taste", it is thoughtlessness and disgraceful demeanour in an attempt to drag Kier Starmer down.

I wonder if anyone would have noticed if Starmer hadn't drawn attention to it.

Given the belief amongst some. Others that Labour ant manage the economy, it makes absolute sense that Starmer and Reeves are prepared to review policies/proposals in light of economic pressures. Seriously how is a Labour govt expected to rebuild the nhs and public services which have been devastated over 13 years

Maddyone
I think that ( for once ) Starmer is listing to the people.
Your average Joe is more interested in the nhs, food prices, energy prices, the state of schools, the police force, will their children be able to buy a house ( or even find somewhere to rent) and on it goes 😥

Sunak like a lot of MP's has no idea of the life of the ordinary people those who work for a living pay a mortgage struggle to pay their bills older people who are scared to leave their homes for fear of violence etc MP'shave huge salary's or in Sunak's case are millionaires and dont have to worry about the things we do so why do we not have more MP's holding meetings in their constituencies to hear what the people they represent have to say

I’m not even sure that the green pledge is all that popular with everyday people. When they realise the vast cost to themselves, they tend to become a little less keen. We have got to get there, net zero, and as technology develops, which it is doing quickly now, the cost will become less. But when we’re talking about electric cars that cost ten or more thousands than a petrol car, and lose value more quickly, and heat pumps costing upwards of fourteen thousand pounds, people often become less enthusiastic. I don’t think the rowing back on green pledges will do Starmer much harm.

Just to set the record straight, the fact that the King’s cancer had been caught early was announced on the news the day before Sunak mentioned it ( either BBC or Sky ).