Atlantic Ocean circulation nearing ‘devastating’ tipping point

Yep- very troubling news but no one seems to want to give up their cars or other trappings of civilised life so I think we're all off to hell in a hand cart. Meanwhile people obsess about putting the wrong thing in their re-cycling bin. A bit laughable really.

With the actual reality of climate change on earth that should be of the most importance globally. The human race is hell bent on waging war on each other. I fear for the future in every respect I really do.

I’ve given up.

Still one bit of good news when the system stops the U.K. will be much colder, while the rest of the world burns.

Another scurrilous article published by the Guardian, the climate is clearly getting warmer and changes are occurring worldwide, how they are going to affect the climate is pure speculation.
Many predictions have proved wildly inaccurate and clearly biased by activists

So let’s think this through.

The article in the Guardian, was also echoed in reports by CNN, The Washington Post, various scientific publications, the BBC and many others.

So reducing this phenomena as just a scurrilous article in the guardian is a tad disingenuous😄.

This is one of the climate change shifts that scientists are most worried about, and would bring about severe impact - particularly in the North Atlantic region, but the knock-on effect will be felt throughout the planet as this is a major global climate regulator.

Measuring what is happening has been carried out for years, so it is an accurate and timely warning.

There have been smany inversions in the oceans since the earth was formed. Temperature inversions and magnetic inversions. The earth is always in a state of flux, nothing is static. We are living within a very tiny time frame wrt earth age and these movements and changes will be frightening because we know about them now, through advanced technology and science

Best to live in the moment, it is what it is and `what if` are two scary frightening words, best not to use them, just live the best you can be in your own bubble

Remember that scare-mongering sells papers

Also linked with solar flares and our dying sun btw.

karmalady

There have been smany inversions in the oceans since the earth was formed. Temperature inversions and magnetic inversions. The earth is always in a state of flux, nothing is static. We are living within a very tiny time frame wrt earth age and these movements and changes will be frightening because we know about them now, through advanced technology and science

Best to live in the moment, it is what it is and `what if` are two scary frightening words, best not to use them, just live the best you can be in your own bubble

Remember that scare-mongering sells papers

Would you like me to quote the scientific papers that provide evidence for this phenomena?

You simply can’t dismiss this as scare mongering.

We went down that road before and look where that got us!

It is just as well that this is being taken seriously by some and in a timely fashion, which has saved a lot of devastating flooding from sea rise on the south coast.

If you lived near the sea/river in say Shoreham, you would not be so quick to say “scaremongering” - in fact you would have seen over your lifetime how the sea level rises are bringing direct consequences to both urban and rural life.

I suspect the argument, however, is centred around the cause of this sea rise - but frankly as you said, we live in a very tiny time frame - but it amounts to the same thing.

It’s all very well saying that changes like this have always happened. So they have, and at one time all the land was one big continent, but changes have happened in geological time and people weren’t even around for most of them. If things change so fast that we can notice them, we will indeed notice them and may not enjoy them. Stop flying and get out of your cars if you are able to walk or can take a bus! (Hides behind sofa,)

It is all very well, too, saying that climate changes have happened before.

What climate experts know, but most of us don't seem to, is that the changes occur in cycles with a long build-up in between, and other changes that affect the climate (involving the sun, the earths journey through space, volcanoes erupting, changes in the path of ocean currents and other things) also occur in cycles of their own and their history can be traced.. According to the sum of all these, they predicted that the earth should in fact be getting colder gradually at the moment, not warmer fast as is happening.

The other big difference os that human beings are now the dominant species on earth, and for as long as they have been able to do so they have been altering their environment so as to more comfortable they. They chop down forests to grow more food to avoid the inevitable famines that their increasing numbers would cause. They burn the wood to keep them warm, they then burn coal and oil to keep them even warmer. they use these energy sources to drive machinery in factories to satisfy their desire for more and more consumer goods, and to fuel the transport of those goods (and food) from the far side of the globe, and to carry them to places which once were only visited by a few explorers in wooden ships powered by the wind or oarsmen. They commute to work from their homes tens of miles away, where once they would have lived within walking distance of their place of work.All this use of fossil fuel adds to the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, which blanket the earth and slow down the escape of heat.

Everyone thinks that their own use is modest, that the culprits are only celebrities whizzing around in private jets, but try adding up how many people per year fly to a tropical isle for a stag or hen night, drive the length of a continent for a touring holiday, replace their car, clothes or furniture frequently, or fill their wheeliebin with disposable stuff that will contribute to the many tons of landfill.

We are now the dominant species on earth? Not for much longer.
In terms of 'dominance' that has lasted millenia but only in the last few centuries or even decades, these problems have arisen?

I don't agree with the premise of your argument.

People just don’t care, well, many of those we know and those I read about online. Still hopping on and off planes, still buying excess clothing and ‘stuff’, as a microcosm GN offers a sample of those people.

Quite right jaxjacky.

keepingquiet

We are now the dominant species on earth? Not for much longer.
In terms of 'dominance' that has lasted millenia but only in the last few centuries or even decades, these problems have arisen?

I don't agree with the premise of your argument.

It is only in the last few centuries, since the industrial revolution, that large factories have been turning out goods in bulk at prices that the ordinary worker could afford, powered first by water mills and then by the abundant coal that was being mined. Before that, the inventories that accompany even quite well-to-do wills show what we would think are pretty sparsely furnished and equipped households. Most of the population had only the necessities, and many not even a fire to put smoke into the atmosphere..

The crises in farming in the "hungry forties" of the early 19th C meant that many hungry country-dwellers migrated to the towns and provided a large (and cheap) workforce for the factories.

“Atlantic Ocean circulation nearing ‘devastating’ tipping point,”

That is pure speculation, nobody has any idea what the “tipping point” will be, they have invented their own data points. The facts are that nobody knows how the ocean currents will interact with each other as climate changes.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202402/medium-689852-screenshot-2024-02-11-at-13-46-45-global-population-10-000bce-2100-statista.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202402/medium-23849-screenshot-2024-02-11-at-13-53-37-what-are-greenhouse-gases-ghg-emission-sources.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202402/medium-669057-screenshot-2024-02-11-at-14-03-07-global-average-temperature-records.png

It isn't my premise. It is the result of accumulated records collected by many organisations..

Estimated global population from 10,000BCE to 2100
www.statista.com/statistics/1006502/global-population-ten-thousand-bc-to-2050/

What are Greenhouse gases?
www.cooleffect.org/why-carbon

How global-average temperature records work.
www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/climate/science/global-temperature-records

Katie59

“Atlantic Ocean circulation nearing ‘devastating’ tipping point,”

That is pure speculation, nobody has any idea what the “tipping point” will be, they have invented their own data points. The facts are that nobody knows how the ocean currents will interact with each other as climate changes.

We don't know that they won't either.

So which would be the worst scenario?

1) We assume that the predictions are correct, use things for longer before replacing them, wear more warm clothes instead of turning up the thermostat, use less carbon-releasing fossil fuel, stop filling landfill sites with carbon and methane producing waste, avoid transport options that are costly in greenhouse gas production, slow down our production of greenhouse gasses, and stop or even reverse the process.

2) We keep doing all the things that are known to increase the factors that can lead to climate change and risk reaching a point of no return, after which it will be impossible to stop a chain reaction.

If we take the first option, we might never know for certain whether we had made a difference, or whether it was all scaremongering - but we would still have a world that was fit for us to live in, and there could be some good side effects - like cleaner air, less need for more and more landfill sites, and less need for diminishing stocks of raw materials to be mined to replace goods that still had a lot of use in them.

If we take the second, we might not know whether we made the right decision either. If we got it wrong it might take decades for conditions to deteriorate so much that none of the earth was inhabitable - but our grandchildren would know.

Will they come to condemn us for our selfishness, for taking the easy option instead of making sure we take out insurance against a potential disasterfor humans? Is it worth risking their future for the sake of a bit of foresight and care now?

keepingquiet

We are now the dominant species on earth? Not for much longer.
In terms of 'dominance' that has lasted millenia but only in the last few centuries or even decades, these problems have arisen?

I don't agree with the premise of your argument.

As a species we are too clever for our own good, we can control most things, exploit resources even explore the solar system and conquer diseases. So far we have not been able to control population growth or climate, for both these challenges we have got to try much harder.
Globally we have got to reduce consumption this will mean a reduction in lifestyle for western nations, maybe the next generation will come to accept this, we are a long way from that at present

It is just so depressing

Whitewavemark2

Still one bit of good news when the system stops the U.K. will be much colder, while the rest of the world burns.

We've known for ages that the 'pump' which drives the Gulf Stream is melting, which will result in us having weather more like the Nordic countries.

I doubt I'll be here to see it but what a mess to leave our grandchildren.

The earth is always in a state of flux, nothing is static. We are living within a very tiny time frame wrt earth age and these movements and changes will be frightening because we know about them now, through advanced technology and science
Very true, karmalady.
Earth undergoes constant change and so does our relationship with our sun, moon and solar system.
Huge changes happened relatively recently, 10,000 years ago and and fairly rapidly too.
We've experienced a period of relative stability for a long time.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0fpwhhm/earth It's quite interesting to watch this series on the history of the Earth.

True, there are changes going on all the time. Usually they are very slow, taking thousands or millions of years. giving the life forms then existing the time to evolve at the same speed so that their descendants become adapted to the changes.

What is different about the climate change process going on at the moment is the speed of chnge - within living memory there have been big changes. There could be many extinctions. Human beings are intelligent and resourceful enough to survive, but their way of life may have to change radically, and there may be mass migrations to more hospitable areas. That would almost certainly lead to wars for space and resources.

It would not necessarily alll be "good news when the system stops the U.K. will be much colder, while the rest of the world burns." They might all come here to get away from the parched earth. What kind of reception would they get?

Yes that occurred to me at the time I posted that! But thought bringing migrants into the conversation might take it into the wrong direction😄😄