The vote on the call for ceasefire in Gaza

Whitewave I do not believe you lie, you report what you genuinely believe to be true, I do not believe the claims by the British surgeon, I question the number of civilian casualties in comparison with Ukraine casualties, I have never denied the suffering of all

Perhaps this would help a little in reconciling the two “truths”

Menachum Begim, as prime minister of Israel was one of the prime architects of the Camp David Peace Accord.

In the mid-1940s he headed the Irgun, a Zionist paramilitary group intent on driving the British out of Palestine in order to facilitate the founding of the Israeli state.

The Irgun raised money to buy arms through extortion and robbery, hanged two captive British soldiers and booby trapped their bodies and carried out a series of bombing , including most notoriously an attack on British HQs that killed numerous Jews Arabs and British. They were classed as terrorists.

Asked about his account of the violence carried out? Begin replied

“Historically we were not “terrorists. We were, strictly speaking, anti-terrorists”

Of course he had the advantage of being able to speak as a victor in the troubles.

But defining terms does matter, and Hamas undoubtedly see themselves in exactly the same way.

I have no difficulty in recognising the evil carried out by Hamas and the IDF
Well said Whitewave. This is the place the peacemakers are attempting to negotiate

Iam64

*I have no difficulty in recognising the evil carried out by Hamas and the IDF*
Well said Whitewave. This is the place the peacemakers are attempting to negotiate

I have no difficulty in recognising the evil carried out by Hamas and the IDF

Hear, Hear.

The evil of Hamas' atrocities committed against civilians on 7 October does not by default render Netanyahu's government and the IDF innocent of similar crimes. Legitimate governments, bodies and representatives are also capable of violation. This is not a war of simple bad-versus-good.

I think it is quite clear that war crimes are being committed.

BREAKING:

Yoav Gallant, the Israeli defence minister, has said that Hezbollah’s continued attacks on Israel are pushing the country to a “critical point” in deciding to pursue military action in Lebanon.

“We are committed to the diplomatic process. However, Hezbollah’s aggression is bringing us closer to a critical point in the decision-making regarding our military activities in Lebanon,” Mr Gallant said in a meeting with Amos Hochstein, a US special envoy.

Israel is surrounded by enemies of Jews.

Oreo

Israel is surrounded by enemies of Jews.

It is indeed.
And it has many other enemies all around the world, including in the UK.

So agree

Oreo

Israel is surrounded by enemies of Jews.

It is Oreo - the only democracy.
I loathe anti semitism, I loathe people excusing 7/10. I loathe the bombing of Gaza - We need the two locked in their war to stop and consider a way to peace

I loathe knowing that people are starving, living out in the open and unable to care for their children, when actually there is no reason for it. Aid could be getting through to them if Israel allowed it. I don't expect Hamas to treat people with humanity, we know what they are capable of but Israel? A democracy? A country supported by the western world and given billions of dollars by the US? A country given support by our own govt? Do you really feel it's OK for Israel to bomb Gaza, destroy homes, slaughter children, their mothers and fathers, remove all medical facilities, cut off their water and shoot anyone who is in front of them. Do you? Do you really? I don't for one minute excuse Hamas anything, they are vile extremists but what is happening in Gaza is totally inhumane and appalling and will not bring back a single person violated by Hamas on 7/10. Sadly it will only recruit more young men to Hamas and ensure the misery continues.

I had to turn ch4 news off - I could not watch the starving children in Gaza. Of course the horror remains with me. I’ll donate and write to Starmer -
I agree with you foxie

foxie48

I loathe knowing that people are starving, living out in the open and unable to care for their children, when actually there is no reason for it. Aid could be getting through to them if Israel allowed it. I don't expect Hamas to treat people with humanity, we know what they are capable of but Israel? A democracy? A country supported by the western world and given billions of dollars by the US? A country given support by our own govt? Do you really feel it's OK for Israel to bomb Gaza, destroy homes, slaughter children, their mothers and fathers, remove all medical facilities, cut off their water and shoot anyone who is in front of them. Do you? Do you really? I don't for one minute excuse Hamas anything, they are vile extremists but what is happening in Gaza is totally inhumane and appalling and will not bring back a single person violated by Hamas on 7/10. Sadly it will only recruit more young men to Hamas and ensure the misery continues.

I completely agree

It’s probably not totally relevant here but anyway, I went to see the film One Life today (it rained all day so we decided to go to the cinema.) It was about Nicholas Winton who rescued mainly Jewish children from Prague after the annexation of the Sudetenland by the Nazis. I recommend it.
But it’s a timely reminder of why the Jews fight so hard to protect their homeland.
I wish, I think we all do, that Hamas hadn’t decided to launch that terrible attack on 7/10. None of what has happened would have happened if that had not been done. It may well have given Netanyahu the reason he needed to do what has been done.

Reading of Nicholas Winton, even watching Fiddler on the Roof, it stirs strong emotions in me, not to have roots and to be
forced to move on, to have ancestors who were in the Holocaust, what emotions stir in the Jewish communities

A good film isn’t it

The sad things is, The Wombles of Wimbledon could do much better than these so called politicians. They could not run a #p# up in a brewery. To be truthful, I have given up hope for this country ever becoming Great Britain again. So upsetting.

Israel is still preventing aid from entering Gaza.

Childhood deaths from totally Israeli inflicted starvation are beginning to mount.

I couldn’t live with a government who is willing to do that to children, and I suspect most Israelis can’t either. They desperately need an election.

USA and several other countries have been air dropping aid, not enough I know but better than nothing.

What would ‘being Great Britain again’ look like?
We can’t become an empire built on the back of other poorer countries again and surely we don’t want to.
Being a productive United Kingdom would be a good start

AlwaysSmiling
Great Britain is a geographical description, not a description of how wonderful, or otherwise, our country is. Great Britain includes the countries of England, Scotland, and Wales. When Northern Ireland is included it becomes the United Kingdom.