Shemima Begum.

nahsma the teachers would not have been covering their backs! Let’s have less blaming of the teachers. A teacher’s job is to teach, Maths, English, Art, Geography, History etc. That is the primary job of a teacher. Of course the welfare of the pupils is of paramount concern, and schools do their very best to ensure that pupils are safe. However these girls were deceitful, scheming, devious, and clever. They were not five year olds. They were capable of organising all this without the knowledge of anyone, including their parents. This shows the level of their ability to deceive.

maddyone

Thank you GMS.
I don’t know what the penalties are for that crime, but I imagine that if that is the only offence, she wouldn’t get a very severe sentence.

You are correct. Here are the sentencing guidelines - you can see that she could soon be walking amongst us.
www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/proscribed-organisations-membership/

Jackiest

She was born here, she grew up here she is our problem no matter what she did or did not do. We should not be pushing our problems onto another country. No other country wants her and why should they.

But unfortunately for her she is not a British citizen

Foxie48, winterwhite and nashma: Yes, Yes and Yes.....

Thank you GSM, I’ve had a quick look and it seems there would be quite a number of mitigating factors, not least her age at the time of the offence.
I’m going to have a longer look at your link later.
Whatever sentence she received, it would be halved no doubt.
And where would she serve her sentence since she was a minor at the time?
I’m sure she would indeed soon be walking among us.

That would be my fear too.

I wonder how many people who think she should be returned to the UK realise just how soon she could be walking among them, free to do whatever she wants and meet whomsoever she wants and spreading the ISIS propaganda?

maddyone

nahsma the teachers would not have been covering their backs! Let’s have less blaming of the teachers. A teacher’s job is to teach, Maths, English, Art, Geography, History etc. That is the primary job of a teacher. Of course the welfare of the pupils is of paramount concern, and schools do their very best to ensure that pupils are safe. However these girls were deceitful, scheming, devious, and clever. They were not five year olds. They were capable of organising all this without the knowledge of anyone, including their parents. This shows the level of their ability to deceive.

SB and her two friends were very close friends with another schoolgirl, from the same school, who had travelled to Syria in December 2015. The school was concerned about them also being radicalised and reported it to the police. The police came to the school in Feb 2016 and gave the girls letters to take back home alerting their parents to the fact that one of their friends had gone to Syria to join ISIS. Unsurprisingly, those letters never made it home and the girls who had been in contact with their friend in Syria had no further contact with the police. I can't help thinking that more could have been done as they had already been identified as "being at risk of radicalisation". I bet their "friend" in Syria was assuring them that everything in Syria was wonderful and what was in the UK press was a load of rubbish and that ISIS was a great organisation. We know how easy it is to manipulate people, just look at all the conspiracy rubbish that pulls people in and these were teenage girls probably desperate for a bit of glamour and excitement. ISIS had a very sophisticated media machine and was pulling in people from all over the world. Evil in the extreme and keen to get young girls to Syria for basically sexual abuse! Anyway, that's how I see it, it just makes me sad that an extremely foolish decision made at 15 becomes basically a life sentence.

School were aware SB and her friends were being radicalised. They wrote to tell the parents this. SB didn’t give the letter to her parents. These girls were failed by the Prevent programme.
Saying that doesn’t mean I don’t share the concerns about her expressed here. She was out of the control of her parents, not the only 15 year old plotting and scheming while being groomed on line
In one interview, she claimed to have been told the allegations of rape and beheading were ‘propoganda’ against the caliphate. Later she claimed to have been unconcerned witnessing beheadings.
She was born in the UK, doesn’t have Pakistani citizenship and they don’t want her
I’m inclined to think she’s our problem but I also accept the courts decision

Sorry foxie - cross posted with you. It’s my understanding the info on how wonderful life under Isis did come via the internet from their former school friend

My view is different from most of yours, and it is just a personal opinion. I feel there is much we could learn in terms of intelligence and for this reason alone I would reinstate her citizenship, bring her back and keep her under very close scrutiny.

I also did not know her parents returned to Pakistan, it’s odd we’ve never heard from them. I’m not sure SB would be better off in Pakistan either and if indeed she is a danger to national security would we want her in the hands of the Pakistanis?

Very difficult case indeed.

Iam64

Sorry foxie - cross posted with you. It’s my understanding the info on how wonderful life under Isis did come via the internet from their former school friend

No prob, good to know someone else knows something of the background to this story. She was groomed and her friend, who they trusted, was used by ISIS to groom her and her friends. The arrangements to get them to Syria were quite complex and carried out by ISIS. She was probably told to use her sister's passport to avoid detection. It feels so much like the gangs who groomed vulnerable kids, they were made out to be responsible for their actions and making "life choices" I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt but if she came back to the UK I do feel she should be charged with anything that she has done and should pay the price but to deny her the right to return to the UK, is IMO wrong.

Cossie SB's parents are from Bangladesh. Her father has returned there but her mother is in the UK and wants her home. She is not entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship and as the UK have taken her British citizenship away she remains stateless. This means she will spend her life in a Kurdish refugee camp in Northern Syria, it's effectively a prison.

Her sentence for being a member of a proscribed organisation would, given mitigating factors, be quite short. Would you be happy to have her living in your community on release foxie? Or near any of your loved ones? And influence others who may commit an atrocity in which your family or friends are killed? That is the reality of what members of ISIS do. Stop seeing her as a 15 year old (who knew what she was doing) and start seeing her as the terrorist that she became. The security services aren’t naive - they know she is a danger to us and it was on that basis that her citizenship was revoked.

Iam64

School were aware SB and her friends were being radicalised. They wrote to tell the parents this. SB didn’t give the letter to her parents. These girls were failed by the Prevent programme.
Saying that doesn’t mean I don’t share the concerns about her expressed here. She was out of the control of her parents, not the only 15 year old plotting and scheming while being groomed on line
In one interview, she claimed to have been told the allegations of rape and beheading were ‘propoganda’ against the caliphate. Later she claimed to have been unconcerned witnessing beheadings.
She was born in the UK, doesn’t have Pakistani citizenship and they don’t want her
I’m inclined to think she’s our problem but I also accept the courts decision

What on earth made the school think that the letter would actually be given to the parents?
It seems a very strange, casual way to deal with something so serious.

She has certainly paid a price for her foolish teenage decision. Three dead babies, stripped of her right to return to the UK and stuck in limbo for the foreseeable. There's a very informative podcast on BBC Sounds which tracks how she managed to make her way to Syria, who facilitated it and what happened when she and her friends arrived there. There was a grooming gang behind it all, of course. I don't know what should happen next. Bangladesh didn't want her and it looks like there is no future for her anywhere.

She was a child who was groomed.
Personally I find her repulsive, but the fact remains that she was a minor, and should be treated as such.

THE jihadi schoolgirl who fled Britain to join ISIS in Syria said seeing the severed heads of terror victims dumped in bins "didn't faze me at all".

Shamima Begum, 19, described spotting the gory aftermath of extremist executions, but calmly brushed off the experience as part of her "normal" life with fundamentalists.

She should Not be allowed back here ever

foxie48

Cossie SB's parents are from Bangladesh. Her father has returned there but her mother is in the UK and wants her home. She is not entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship and as the UK have taken her British citizenship away she remains stateless. This means she will spend her life in a Kurdish refugee camp in Northern Syria, it's effectively a prison.

Thanks, I was quoting someone else on this thread who stated her parents returned to Pakistan.

I do understand she is stateless however, just think it’s strange we’ve really not heard much from her family.

It’s a shocking awful tale and I am glad I’m not the one making any decisions. As GSM and others have stated I’m sure there’s much of which we are not aware.

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

How can we as a civilised country send foreign criminals back to their home countries but not accept our own back.

She has not been tried by any court, I totally accept that she could be a danger, but also I have to acknowledge that she doesn’t have to be in the U.K. in order to carry out/organise anything against us.

The point of the appeal was whether or not the removal of her British citizenship was lawful or unlawful.

Three Appeal Court judges decided unanimously that it was in fact lawful as she had Bangladeshi citizenship as well at that time.

Dame Sue Carr, the head of the court of appeal, said the judges unanimously dismissed Begum’s appeal: “It could be argued that the decision in Miss Begum’s case was harsh."
“It could also be argued that Miss Begum is the author of her own misfortune. But it is not for this court to agree or disagree with either point of view."
“Our only task is to assess whether the deprivation decision was unlawful. We have concluded it was not and the appeal is dismissed.”

She does not have Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh have been quite clear on this, People of Bangladeshi descent are entitled to claim citizenship, but must do so before their 21st birthday. She has never claimed it.

Parsley3

She has certainly paid a price for her foolish teenage decision. Three dead babies, stripped of her right to return to the UK and stuck in limbo for the foreseeable. There's a very informative podcast on BBC Sounds which tracks how she managed to make her way to Syria, who facilitated it and what happened when she and her friends arrived there. There was a grooming gang behind it all, of course. I don't know what should happen next. Bangladesh didn't want her and it looks like there is no future for her anywhere.

We, we wouldn't want her to go to Bangladesh, whatever we think of her actions.

A foolish girl, chasing excitement, but she has shown no remorse since and reinforced her views in the interview she gave.

She does not have Bangladeshi citizenship. Bangladesh have been quite clear on this, People of Bangladeshi descent are entitled to claim citizenship, but must do so before their 21st birthday. She has never claimed it.

Yes, I said that earlier but it is worth repeating.
Just as well, she'd face the death penalty there, said government officials.

Urmstongran

“If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them"
Karl Popper.

Sadly I believe this is coming towatds us now.
We cannot afford to be naive or too soft hearted.
Our country would not have survived through WW2 by bending over backwords. we have to have proper boundaries and know who is with us and who is not.

Germanshepherdsmum

Her sentence for being a member of a proscribed organisation would, given mitigating factors, be quite short. Would you be happy to have her living in your community on release foxie? Or near any of your loved ones? And influence others who may commit an atrocity in which your family or friends are killed? That is the reality of what members of ISIS do. Stop seeing her as a 15 year old (who knew what she was doing) and start seeing her as the terrorist that she became. The security services aren’t naive - they know she is a danger to us and it was on that basis that her citizenship was revoked.

You are entitled to your opinion, you see her as a terrorist and I would like to see her properly dealt with in our courts. Bring her back to the UK, let's take responsibility for her (as we should) and let her face any criminal charges that are appropriate and be properly tried. That's how civilised countries deal with people and I'd like to think we are still a civilised country. I would have thought that you as a lawyer would have also wanted justice but perhaps not.

Oh and fwiw, in a past life I worked with teenagers who, let's say, had had quite troubled lives and done some pretty stupid things. I didn't meet any monsters, but I did meet sad, angry confused and sometimes rather unpleasant kids and perhaps that colours my view of people. I believe in justice and second chances, I don't expect anyone else to agree with me but I'm comfortable with my own position.