Shemima Begum.

How could a school miss opportunities to prevent her from leaving the country? As an ex teacher I find that impossible to believe. As I understand it, the school could have reported the three girls to the relevant authorities if they were concerned about them becoming radicalised. There were clearly no signs of that otherwise the school would have done just that. Schools are very aware of the circumstances of their pupils, I know this from experience. The girls were clever, that the school did know about SB, and they clearly hid everything they were planning to do from all the adults in their lives. In actual fact, the parents were in the best position to notice anything unusual about their daughters, but they say there were no signs.

foxie48

Callistemon21

if her school and other agencies had not failed in their duty of care towards her, she would never have left the country in the first place

Are schools responsible for what teenagers do out of school hours?
Which other agencies were involved and why? Was there any indication that she and her friends were anything other than normal teenagers?

news.sky.com/story/shamima-begum-police-and-school-missed-opportunities-to-stop-her-leaving-uk-lawyers-claim-12753383

This has been well reported, both her school and the police missed opportunities to prevent her and her two friends leaving the country.

Oh dear, yes, they did miss opportunities, then.

However, they were all very devious.

winterwhite

*GG13*’s point is unanswerable. I also think that dark mutterings of ‘‘if you knew what I know’ get us nowhere and should be substantiated or discounted. No one failed in their duty of care towards her. Young people do know their own minds at 15, tho they don’t know how limited their knowledge is.
So I don’t see a case for not allowing her back, to face trial and probably life imprisonment.
Calculating the cost of individual cases like this is pointless.

I also think that dark mutterings of ‘‘if you knew what I know’ get us nowhere and should be substantiated or discounted

Best ask Sajid Javid and the British Security Services that question then
🤔

Echoing GermanShephersMum's first post on this my thought on evaluating this person has always been that I think the British Public should know what the Home Secretary( was it Sajid Javid?) knew. I very clearly remember him saying this. I would very much like to know this to evaluate whether I , as an ordinary citizen, think she is likely to be a threat to the UK.

So you think the Security Services should divulge sensitive information, potentially useful to terrorists and possibly damaging to the British public?

Really?

I would very much like to know this to evaluate whether I , as an ordinary citizen, think she is likely to be a threat to the UK.

Are you likely to be an Appeal Court Judge if a future appeal is to be made?

We have to trust their judgement.

Thank you Germanshepherdsmum

Why are human rights cases singled out and allowed to? Doesn’t anybody ever question this?

Giving the ruling, Lady Chief Justice Baroness Carr said: “It could be argued the decision in Ms Begum’s case was harsh. It could also be argued that Ms Begum is the author of her own misfortune.

“But it is not for this court to agree or disagree with either point of view.

“The only task of the court was to assess whether the deprivation decision was unlawful. Since it was not, Ms Begum’s appeal is dismissed.”

winterwhite

*GG13*’s point is unanswerable. I also think that dark mutterings of ‘‘if you knew what I know’ get us nowhere and should be substantiated or discounted. No one failed in their duty of care towards her. Young people do know their own minds at 15, tho they don’t know how limited their knowledge is.
So I don’t see a case for not allowing her back, to face trial and probably life imprisonment.
Calculating the cost of individual cases like this is pointless.

The girls were told a story of what their lives would be in Syria which made it seem exciting and attractive. They were given this information by an ex school friend who had travelled to Syria, no doubt she was under the control of ISIS. These were 15 year old girls, lots of girls of this age are easily influenced but once they got to Syria they would have lost any autonomy and would have been subject to ISIS rules. People, including young girls, were killed for not doing as they were told and return to the UK was not a possibility. Try putting yourself in her position, what would you have done? She's made a terrible mistake but she wants to survive, so she did as she was told. she married a jihadi fighter, had three children who all died, and knew the two friends she had travelled out to Syria with had died. It's a tragedy. If, when she was interviewed, she didn't react how people wanted her to react, perhaps she was completely "shut down" emotionally? She had been through and seen more horror than is imaginable and at a very young age with no-one to support her. Some may wish to paint her as a monster but I don't see it that way and tbh I doubt the British public have anything to fear if she came back into the country.

I don’t think sensitive information such as this should be made public, and I don’t think any Home Secretary would do so.
However I would dearly like to know exactly how the school missed opportunities to prevent this happening. Did every teacher have their eyes and ears closed? Of course not. As I said earlier, schools work very hard to ensure the safety and well being of their pupils. These girls were clever, they carefully hid all signs from everyone, including their parents.

No obviously I don't think that the Security Services should divulge info useful to terrorists. Should have put that as a rider to my comments.
As we don't know what this information is we don't know whether it would be a security risk to divulge it.

Most countries have taken back their citizens and dealt with them as thought appropriate.

The U.K. is becoming an outsider on this.

I don’t think she was, or is, a monster, but I do think she was clever, deceitful, and scheming.
What ISIS was doing (beheading people, raping young women) was all over the news at that time, she obviously thought those things were glamorous. It’s a pity she didn’t just think lipsticks, hairstyles, and clothes were glamorous, like normal fifteen year old girls.

I supported the original decision, but I do wonder, if SB were to be brought back to face imprisonment in the UK, how long would it be before we were discussing on here, whether or not the parole board were right to authorise her release?

Whitewavemark2

Most countries have taken back their citizens and dealt with them as thought appropriate.

The U.K. is becoming an outsider on this.

It is not done if it would make someone stateless, only if they have another nationality too, which Begum had through her parents until age 21.
However, Bangladesh said they would refuse her nationality if she applied and that she would face the death penalty if she went there.

The fact that parts of the hearing took place in camera indicates that some of the information placed before the court was extremely sensitive.

Primrose, I am no fan of the way that human rights legislation is used by asylum seekers and people like Begum, nor of the lawyers who feed off the taxpayer to represent them.

Has she committed a crime here in the UK that she could actually be prosecuted for GMS?

pascal30

Germanshepherdsmum

She has been radicalised and appears to show no remorse so I doubt she would be rehabilitated. More likely that she would radicalise others, as we know often happens in prisons. It’s clear that the security services know she has become a very dangerous person.

I think this decision will have been made in light of information known only to the security agencies and limited others and will have been made for the safety of the UK..

Her legal team vow to continue. I hope they don't. Enough tax payer's money has been spent on her case. Today's decision was unanimous so they clearly feel she is a very real threat to the UK.

Primrose53

nahsma

foxie48

So much misinformation, her mother made a statement in 2022 and is in this country, her parents were, as already corrected, Bangladeshi. I haven't changed my mind about this. She should be allowed back into the country, she was a naive 15 year old, trafficked by older men and women and she has had an utterly vile life at the hands of ISIS. We should accept responsibility for her because frankly, if her school and other agencies had not failed in their duty of care towards her, she would never have left the country in the first place.

Entirely this!

Rubbish. She was so clever she ran rings around her family, her school and everybody else to fund and plan her escape.

I remember seeing a teacher from her school on TV and she said those 3 girls were very bright, very streetwise and knew exactly what they were doing.

Primrose53 You don't think it possible that the the people who were supposed to be safeguarding her, and her friends, fouled up so badly that they might, just might, be trying to cover their backs?

Would those who feel she should return to this country be willing to have this person live close by their own family, given the connections she must have made after so many years of exposure to a regime devoid of any recognisible humanity? Together wth the knowledge that there is information of a deeply concerning nature that has not been revealed, regrettably Miss Begum seems to have settled her own destiny.

She’s certainly devious.
I seem to remember she took her older sister’s passport when she left.

maddyone

Has she committed a crime here in the UK that she could actually be prosecuted for GMS?

She was (and maybe still is) a member of a proscribed organisation, ISIS.

Thank you GMS.
I don’t know what the penalties are for that crime, but I imagine that if that is the only offence, she wouldn’t get a very severe sentence.

As this latest court hearing found that the original one was lawful it’s difficult to see where she can go from here.

She was born here, she grew up here she is our problem no matter what she did or did not do. We should not be pushing our problems onto another country. No other country wants her and why should they.