Too many British families are hungry!

There are however just as many obese people - if not more - than hungry starving people. When I go out and about, I see far more fat people - than skinny thin people. I find it all somewhat hard to believe.

montymops

There are however just as many obese people - if not more - than hungry starving people. When I go out and about, I see far more fat people - than skinny thin people. I find it all somewhat hard to believe.

What is hard to believe? That obesity can't come about because of food insecurity? Of course it can. A cheap diet of frozen pizza, oven chips, sausage rolls, UHP meat, white bread, fizzy drinks etc will lead to obesity if eaten alongside a lifestyle that has little exercise. A diet of fresh fruit and veg, 'superfoods', lean meat, wholemeal bread will cost a lot more.

Here is an article that spells it out, with a link to the report that inspired it.

The most deprived fifth of the population would need to spend 50% of their disposable income on food to get a healthy diet, whereas the least deprived fifth who would have to spend 11% of their income to get the same diet. Given that these are percentages, and that there is a huge differential between the top and bottom income groups it is clear that the gap between the 'after-food shopping' disposable incomes in the respective groups is going to be enormous. If you have a large income, even spending 50% of it would leave enough for a comfortable lifestyle, whereas on a small one even 11% might make things tight, yet the percentages are the other way round when it comes to healthy food. That needs to change.

montymops

There are however just as many obese people - if not more - than hungry starving people. When I go out and about, I see far more fat people - than skinny thin people. I find it all somewhat hard to believe.

It's not a competition, you know.

We are talking about very poor people who cannot always afford to feed themselves and their children. Hospital admissions for malnutrition are rising. Poor nutrition in childhood can have effects reaching far into adulthood.

At least obesity indicates that people can afford to feed themselves, even if they eat the wrong things...

But what can/ should be done to change the situation, ie to alleviate food insecurity , and, in particular, child poverty?
So many comments have been trying to determine the causes or the reasons( not the same thing) resulting in a fair amount of judgemental comments, with some suggestions, many of which, however worthy, are idealistic, unrealistic, impractical, or just a mere drop in the ocean.
There are very important contributions made in local communities, even teachers feeding children out of their own pockets, food banks of course, cookery courses etc but these seem to me to be sticking plasters.
Is there a solution?

I’m in the north and where I live there are areas within the same town of great wealth and poverty. Some of the people in the middle are now experiencing using services that they were unaware of . When I was at school poverty was about but those with a network coped better. Food was shared or borrowed. Parents still went to the pub , today equivalent of the nails and vapes . Being skint long term is grim , I can see why some have to seek comfort in a treat . We had the biscuit barrel as a treat.

I'm not reading 17 repetitive pages. I've made it to the end of page 4. Arguing and ranting won't solve poverty but for those in such dire need that they only have a kettle, i.e. no cooker, surely Social Services should be involved? When my son was doing the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme expeditions, they were not allowed to pack pot noodles or cup soups because there was not enough nutrition in them.

MissAdventure have you considered supermarket delivery? I doubt if any of the delivery slots cost £14. Morrison's slots start from £1.50 and Tesco's Whoosh option delivers a couple of bags of shopping in as little as 20 minutes for £2.99!

Doodledog

👏👏

"The most deprived fifth of the population would need to spend 50% of their disposable income on food "

Indeed Doodledog my fishmonger has salmon fillets at almost £5, heathy and delicious. I would imagine that if that £5 or £4 or even £3 had to feed a family 'healthy and delicious' may not sadly be the priority. Especially if you only have access to an over priced local shop.
I believe that the Co-op was started by a few who bought in bulk, cut out the middle man and sold cheaply in areas where there was need.

Parents still went to the pub , today equivalent of the nails and vapes . Being skint long term is grim , I can see why some have to seek comfort in a treat.
Absolutely. People need more than essentials. I will probably misquote, but the gist of a line from King Lear is 'Reason not the need! Allow not Nature more than Nature needs, man's life is cheap as beasts'.' In other words, animals need food, shelter and warmth - humans need more, to fit in with those around them, and to allow self actualisation.

On the whole (and yes, I know that there will be posters who rise above such things ) people are pretty similar to those around them. Most of us will probably have a lot of things that are similar to friends and neighbours of our age and income. Whether that's about the clothing and shoes mentioned earlier, the number of books in the house, a giant TV or no TV, the choice between a labrador and an XL Bully, a mattress or a summerhouse in the garden, or nails and vapes versus cashmere cardigans and VOS sherry - we tend to 'fit in'. It is very easy to 'do without' things we don't want, so me saying I wouldn't spend money on a tattoo signifies nothing, and I don't vape, but there are other things that I would see as a deprivation if I had to go without. It's not for me to say that someone spending on nails and vapes is wasting money, whereas someone else spending differently (above bare necessities) is not.

Cabbie21

But what can/ should be done to change the situation, ie to alleviate food insecurity , and, in particular, child poverty?
So many comments have been trying to determine the causes or the reasons( not the same thing) resulting in a fair amount of judgemental comments, with some suggestions, many of which, however worthy, are idealistic, unrealistic, impractical, or just a mere drop in the ocean.
There are very important contributions made in local communities, even teachers feeding children out of their own pockets, food banks of course, cookery courses etc but these seem to me to be sticking plasters.
Is there a solution?

The initial solution is to institute a system of state welfare which ensures that all prople on state benefits receive enough money to adequately feed, clothe themselves and are able to keep warm.

We know that current benefits are not adequate because, like the conditions in Victorian workhouses, they are designed to force people off them.

However, that is not popular with those who believe that extreme poverty indicates some sort of moral failure and who get quite agitated by the thought that these moral failures should be allowed a modicum of comfort in their existence.

Plenty of my foodbank clients are worryingly slim

I think when people/organizations etc make it just about food they are not seeing the bigger picture. It is about the coat too thin for the weather, the house to cold, the shoes to small, the fine if your older teenager wont go to school that day. Large companies not paying tax through `legal` loopholes is wrong but not the reason for social injustice. I was brought up in the 50`s we had nothing and if it wasn`t for school meals even through school holidays we would have died. Sad to see this is still the case today.

Cabbie21

But what can/ should be done to change the situation, ie to alleviate food insecurity , and, in particular, child poverty?
So many comments have been trying to determine the causes or the reasons( not the same thing) resulting in a fair amount of judgemental comments, with some suggestions, many of which, however worthy, are idealistic, unrealistic, impractical, or just a mere drop in the ocean.
There are very important contributions made in local communities, even teachers feeding children out of their own pockets, food banks of course, cookery courses etc but these seem to me to be sticking plasters.
Is there a solution?

Well, who decides what is idealistic, unrealistic, impractical or just a drop in the ocean? .

People won't bother even thinking about possibilities if they are going to be met with condescending comments like that.

I think that subsidising healthy food is a better way forward than taxing sugar or banning BOGOFs. I am not a fan of banning things, and also dislike deliberate pricing out of choices, whether they are what to eat or how and where one can travel (or other things such as alcohol intake that are managed by making them too expensive for some yet available to others). A subsidy on vegetables and other ingredients that go into a healthy diet would, IMO, be helpful - both to the public and to farmers - as would ensuring that everyone has access to outlets for the subsidised food, so a distribution network would be needed, or better still, general investment in public transport.

I apologise if that is a drop in the ocean. We need to start somewhere, and if the only suggestions listened to are those which tackle complex and interrelated problems in their entirety nothing will get done.

chris8888

I think when people/organizations etc make it just about food they are not seeing the bigger picture. It is about the coat too thin for the weather, the house to cold, the shoes to small, the fine if your older teenager wont go to school that day. Large companies not paying tax through `legal` loopholes is wrong but not the reason for social injustice. I was brought up in the 50`s we had nothing and if it wasn`t for school meals even through school holidays we would have died. Sad to see this is still the case today.

You cannot compare the 50s with now. There were nowhere near the benefits people get now. There were no community fridges or foodbanks, mainly because so many people were in the same boat after the war years.

People were still using “ Make do and mend” as their motto and making meals out of next to nothing. Families were bigger and I really don’t know how people with 8 and 10 kids managed but they did.

My Dad and his friend bought a pig between them to fatten up with scraps from the hotel they worked in on very low wages. People grew vegetables and fruit and salad stuff not for fun but of necessity. I think people back then had more of a “can do” attitude than now. Now it’s more like “I can’t do so and so because I haven’t got a saucepan”.

I agree with you Primrose. You had to have a ‘can do’ attitude back then. My Dad was blind but he worked all his life and he grew our fruit and veg. He was of his time. Nowadays too many expect handouts rather than working. I’m not, btw, talking about those genuinely too ill or disabled to work. I’m grateful for Dad’s attitude, which set me, and also my son, a great example. If life on benefits for those able to work paid for adequate food, clothing and heat as Doodledog said upthread, what would be the incentive to work?

montymops

There are however just as many obese people - if not more - than hungry starving people. When I go out and about, I see far more fat people - than skinny thin people. I find it all somewhat hard to believe.

One can easily become obese by consuming very cheap, unhealthy, processed but filling food! Being thin doesn’t equal being poor, we are not comparing our hungry community with the starving in Africa! Honestly, that’s a bit of an ignorant remark!

chris8888

I think when people/organizations etc make it just about food they are not seeing the bigger picture. It is about the coat too thin for the weather, the house to cold, the shoes to small, the fine if your older teenager wont go to school that day. Large companies not paying tax through `legal` loopholes is wrong but not the reason for social injustice. I was brought up in the 50`s we had nothing and if it wasn`t for school meals even through school holidays we would have died. Sad to see this is still the case today.

Completely agree

Doodledog

montymops

There are however just as many obese people - if not more - than hungry starving people. When I go out and about, I see far more fat people - than skinny thin people. I find it all somewhat hard to believe.

What is hard to believe? That obesity can't come about because of food insecurity? Of course it can. A cheap diet of frozen pizza, oven chips, sausage rolls, UHP meat, white bread, fizzy drinks etc will lead to obesity if eaten alongside a lifestyle that has little exercise. A diet of fresh fruit and veg, 'superfoods', lean meat, wholemeal bread will cost a lot more.

Here is an article that spells it out, with a link to the report that inspired it.

The most deprived fifth of the population would need to spend 50% of their disposable income on food to get a healthy diet, whereas the least deprived fifth who would have to spend 11% of their income to get the same diet. Given that these are percentages, and that there is a huge differential between the top and bottom income groups it is clear that the gap between the 'after-food shopping' disposable incomes in the respective groups is going to be enormous. If you have a large income, even spending 50% of it would leave enough for a comfortable lifestyle, whereas on a small one even 11% might make things tight, yet the percentages are the other way round when it comes to healthy food. That needs to change.

This 👍

A person can be obese but malnourished because they are lacking in vitamins and minerals from their diet.

I think a lot of it is to do with HOW families spend their money. My late partner’s step daughter went on holiday 4 or 5 times a year. Her mother did at least one cruise per year and thought nothing of nipping over to Spain for a long week end. However, neither of these women could provide a healthy meal for themselves or their family any day of the week and constantly cried food poverty. I have taught children from families whose children hadn’t enough to eat but Mum had fake tan, Botox and hair extensions. Sometimes, choices have to be made but, unfortunately, the right choices are not always selected.

lizzypopbottle

I'm not reading 17 repetitive pages. I've made it to the end of page 4. Arguing and ranting won't solve poverty but for those in such dire need that they only have a kettle, i.e. no cooker, surely Social Services should be involved? When my son was doing the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme expeditions, they were not allowed to pack pot noodles or cup soups because there was not enough nutrition in them.

Your comment about social services really just shows how little you know about these things! People with just kettles are often in temp accommodation , temp accommodation can mean hostels/rooms/cheap hotels or in some dire cases houses/flats that others have been moved out of because they’ve been condemned!

Social Services are so stretched and short staffed they only work with the most neglected children/families and the elderly in the most dire circumstances.

We have a huge shortage of services for our vulnerable citizens

Surely the main factor is housing though?
There are simply too many families who now have to rent privately as there is a dearth of affordable housing.
Our nearest council estate is a least 70% privately owned now and the houses that get rented out go for 3 times the cost of the LA rent. That £850 difference p/m is the difference between feeding your family, affording to heat & furnish your home, run a car etc. Years ago it wasn't simply the most desperate who qualified for a council house as it appears to be now.

tictacnana

I think a lot of it is to do with HOW families spend their money. My late partner’s step daughter went on holiday 4 or 5 times a year. Her mother did at least one cruise per year and thought nothing of nipping over to Spain for a long week end. However, neither of these women could provide a healthy meal for themselves or their family any day of the week and constantly cried food poverty. I have taught children from families whose children hadn’t enough to eat but Mum had fake tan, Botox and hair extensions. Sometimes, choices have to be made but, unfortunately, the right choices are not always selected.

That may be the case in some instances, but it's still not the fault of that child. As I've repeatedly said on these type of threads, it's never the fault of the child who is going hungry.

My Dad and his friend bought a pig between them to fatten up with scraps from the hotel they worked in on very low wages. People grew vegetables and fruit and salad stuff not for fun but of necessity. I think people back then had more of a “can do” attitude than now. Now it’s more like “I can’t do so and so because I haven’t got a saucepan”.

That reminded me, Primrose, of when I was a child and my mother worked in a hotel. Famous, rich people stayed there and the food waste was enormous. The staff couldn't bring home the food so my mother asked if her friends, who were farmers, could pick up the food waste to make swill for their pigs. They must have been the best fed pigs in the area.

Meanwhile, most of our garden was turned over to vegetables.

Housing is a big problem, I think. Many people live in rented property without security, paying high rents and the accommodation is often substandard. No gardens in many cases or not enough to grow food.

keepcalmandcavachon

Surely the main factor is housing though?
There are simply too many families who now have to rent privately as there is a dearth of affordable housing.
Our nearest council estate is a least 70% privately owned now and the houses that get rented out go for 3 times the cost of the LA rent. That £850 difference p/m is the difference between feeding your family, affording to heat & furnish your home, run a car etc. Years ago it wasn't simply the most desperate who qualified for a council house as it appears to be now.

Surely the main factor is housing though?

X post, sorry I was multi-tasking and said the same thing 🙂

keepcalmandcavachon

Surely the main factor is housing though?
There are simply too many families who now have to rent privately as there is a dearth of affordable housing.
Our nearest council estate is a least 70% privately owned now and the houses that get rented out go for 3 times the cost of the LA rent. That £850 difference p/m is the difference between feeding your family, affording to heat & furnish your home, run a car etc. Years ago it wasn't simply the most desperate who qualified for a council house as it appears to be now.

Yes! Plus things like zero hour contracts and lack of living wage jobs. The biggest mistake wasn’t selling off council stock but not replacing it. I live in Essex, loads and loads of lovely new houses and flats going up on every corner. Affordable though? No!