Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Sago

Hamas poked the hornets nest, what did they expect?

They knew what to expect.

They have and never have had any thoughts or respect for the population of Gaza.

AGAA4

The atrocious way the IDF behaved
towards those doctors was shameful. They were stripped beaten and made to stand for hours and have cold water thrown over them.
That is not justifiable. I think the IDF and Hamas are as bad as each other.

The majority of news footage has been pro Hamas propaganda, it was Hamas that was using Nasser Hospital as a strongpoint to resist Israel so of course Israel searched all those remaining.

That’s what happens in war it’s a tradgedy all that Hamas has achieved is the death of probably 40000 Palestinians and the destruction of most of Gaza. Well done all you Hamas supporters encouraging them to carry on.

For me I don’t really care who wins, the quickest way to stop the killing is for Hamas to get out.

Yes Hamas knew what to expect* GrannyGravy13* but I don’t think the watching world did and that’s what the ops question is.

Just to be clear Katie 59 I’m on the side of the all the innocent and helpless people in this war. I do hope you understand that.

I haven’t seen any support of Hamas on this thread could you perhaps point it out for me?

I don't know enough about it to make an informed decision. The media are not impartial, and are swayed by constant rallies that are funded by friends of Hamas.

Not the same I know this, but where are the protesting/rallying calls for all the Afghan women and female children whose lives are so limited/destroyed by the Taliban; or the Yazidi girls and families that were displaced/killed/destroyed by IS.

This may seem like 'what aboutary ..' and I really do not mean that, but it does seem to me that we again are being led by donkeys, and dragged into an abyss.

Granniesunite

Yes Hamas knew what to expect* GrannyGravy13* but I don’t think the watching world did and that’s what the ops question is.

I am a Granny and I could have predicted Israel’s response.

If the watching world couldn’t, they need to open their eyes and ears.

charley68

I don't know enough about it to make an informed decision. The media are not impartial, and are swayed by constant rallies that are funded by friends of Hamas.

Not the same I know this, but where are the protesting/rallying calls for all the Afghan women and female children whose lives are so limited/destroyed by the Taliban; or the Yazidi girls and families that were displaced/killed/destroyed by IS.

This may seem like 'what aboutary ..' and I really do not mean that, but it does seem to me that we again are being led by donkeys, and dragged into an abyss.

What evidence do you have that the media is biased? I look at lots of different media sources and have not seen evidence of bias. The reports that I have read with regard to the attack on 7/10 by Hamas have gone into great detail about the atrocities committed by Hamas and I've not seen anything that supports what they did. Their actions were abhorrent. The media is now reporting the actions of the IDF and that is not what most of us would consider are the actions of a civilised democratic country, but perhaps you think differently?
I agree the withdrawal of American and British troops from Afghanistan was an absolute tragedy for most women but you are correct, it is not the same as what is happening in Gaza.
I don't understand what you mean by us "being led by donkeys and dragged into an abyss" perhaps you'd like to make what you mean much clearer.

This all started with WMD and 9/11 and the aim to make the
Islamic world democratic, it failed miserably all we have done is make it worse.
Everyone feared an attack on Israel knowing they would hit back now its happened.

Eyes wide open now and watching with horror.

Not at all what I expected from a humane society Defend yourself yes of course but this level of carnage doesn’t sit right with me.

being led by donkeys

I actually think that comment is more applicable to the war in Ukraine. We are watching the slaughter there too, and are too afraid to do much about it. We’re putting money in, yes, but Germany and America are putting in far more.

Anyway, I digress, this thread is about Israel and Gaza.

I don’t live there so I don’t know who causes what and who lies and who tells the truth. Hamas struck the first blow,we are told, so Israel quite obviously would hit back and hit back hard. It’s their existence they are talking about. No one here wants to see innocents killed,obviously but that is what happens in wars. You’d think they would realise that but learning is slow and history teaches us nothing.

I would just remind some members how good life is for the Hamas hierarchy.

Israel want their hostages returned and rightly so. They won't be the people who were abducted. Many will have died and it doesn't bear thinking about what those young girls will have been going through. Israel will not get them back intact and that will be a reason to continue this war.

The Gazans have had little choice over who governs them and no choice at all about where they live as they effectively live in a prison. We hate what has happened to people living in Afghanistan and this is so much worse. Thank goodness the EU has accused Israel of the war crime of starving a civilian population. About time too! Netanyahu just carries on killing and starving despite the protests in Israel and the demands for him to step down. As gg13 points out the Hamas leaders are not in Gaza so why continue this slaughter? It's called revenge but it is not the way to bring back the hostages. Totally inhumane behaviour for a so called democratic civilised country.

petra

I would just remind some members how good life is for the Hamas hierarchy.

But none of us, not even one person, has supported Hamas. Our concerns are the innocent citizens of Gaza, the innocent Israelis, any remaining hostages.

Our gripe is very much with the Israeli govt.

nanna8

I don’t live there so I don’t know who causes what and who lies and who tells the truth. Hamas struck the first blow,we are told, so Israel quite obviously would hit back and hit back hard. It’s their existence they are talking about. No one here wants to see innocents killed,obviously but that is what happens in wars. You’d think they would realise that but learning is slow and history teaches us nothing.

The trouble is, and I agree Hamas are evil terrorists, history shows Palestinians being targeted many times by Israel, just as it shows Jewish communities being targeted and discriminated against. Irony is they are two most ions pitted against each other, neither of whom have had a “good time”.

Vintagewhine

The Gazans have had little choice over who governs them and no choice at all about where they live as they effectively live in a prison. We hate what has happened to people living in Afghanistan and this is so much worse. Thank goodness the EU has accused Israel of the war crime of starving a civilian population. About time too! Netanyahu just carries on killing and starving despite the protests in Israel and the demands for him to step down. As gg13 points out the Hamas leaders are not in Gaza so why continue this slaughter? It's called revenge but it is not the way to bring back the hostages. Totally inhumane behaviour for a so called democratic civilised country.

They chose Hamas, probably not the best idea if they had just accepted being ruled by Israel peacefully the would be rather better off

I've yet to see any support for Hamas on here and the actions of the Netanyahu government is not helping to bring hostages home, nor is starving the children of Gaza, destroying the fabric of their society and depriving them of the basic requirements for life. It is doing totally the opposite. Netanyahu is only able to stay in power because he's buying the loyalty of those very right wing settler votes by this inhumanity. It is these right wing settlers who have illegally displaced Palestinians from their homes in the West Bank and killed them if they refuse to move. I asked the opening question because I'd hoped that those who had supported the incursion into Gaza, had kept up to date with what is happening in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel but perhaps not. It seems in some people's eyes, any amount of killing, starving, bombing etc is a justifiable response to the actions of Hamas on 7/10 but it doesn't seem to be achieving any of Netanyahu's aims and thank goodness many Israelis can see that as can the rest of the world.

I want more aid to get into Gaza, food, medical and shelter to help the innocent civilians.

That does not detract from my wish that all remaining hostages are returned along with the return of any bodies of dead hostages in order for their families to lay then to rest.

This needs negotiations, it was reported that Hamas would not agree to a ceasefire over the period of Ramadan.

I cannot see why the assets of the Hamas head honchos cannot be frozen, and those living in luxury are not immediately detained…

Two wrongs do not make a right all they do is encourage more wrongs.
Think of all the young children in Gaza. They will have seen their houses destroyed, friends and relations killed by Israel. Israel is just laying the foundations for far worse atrocities in 20 years time when those children grow up.

GG13 my understanding is that Israel asked for a full list of the hostages that would be released but Hamas said they couldn't find out as the hostages were scattered across Gaza with different groups and communication was difficult without a ceasefire. So much game playing on both sides. I don't believe anything either of them says and without independent coverage of what is happening in Gaza it's difficult to know who is telling the truth. There are very bad men on both sides who care nothing about the loss of life and the hostages are just being used as pawns. It must be terrifying for them, they could be killed by a bomb, killed by Hamas or killed by the IDF. It must be agony for the relatives.

I sometimes feel that the original barbaric act back on the 7/October, has somewhat been lost in the mists of time or even airbrushed out altogether. I just don't see a lot of mention of it by the pro Palestinian Lobby. I also think there are situations where a fair proportion of feminists would be far more vocal in raging against the type of sexual abuse, violation and eventual murder of women that were perpetuated in the aftermath of the Nova Festival in Israel..

However, it's fair to say that Netanyahu is the worst possible premier Israel could have at such an awful time, the gloves came off right away and his retaliations are regrettably disproportionate.

It's such a difficult situation borne out of historical events. Of course the Palestinians have been dealt a raw deal but they, like the Israelis have the awfully vengeful HAMAS who, like the worst of the Zionist body bring nothing to broker any sort of peaceful solution.

My perception is the cranking up of anti Jewish sentiment in the aftermath of these atrocities on both sides, is greater than it's ever been pretty much all over Europe. Given their history and the fact that they are a relatively small demographic, they don't have strength in numbers, I'm deeply concerned for the fearful situation they find themselves in. It does seem that history repeats itself for the umpteenth time, in that they, our Jewish communities, have all the ills of the world heaped upon them and whether or not they support Netanyahu's stance, in the eyes of those who commit racist acts visibly Jewish people, they are guilty as charged.

“I cannot see why the assets of the Hamas head honchos cannot be frozen, and those living in luxury are not immediately detained…”

Because Hamas is funded by Iran and there are already sanctions, the Heads of Hamas are based in Qatar, they seem quite content to continue supporting Hamas to continue the slaughter of Palestinians.

Katie59 "They chose Hamas, probably not the best idea if they had just accepted being ruled by Israel peacefully the would be rather better off*

I cant believe I just read that!! Is this how you imagine England would behave if for 70 YEARS they had lands stolen and families displaced? Would you* SIT BACK AND "ACCEPT IT* if soldiers with guns threw you out of your home and razed it to the ground then their government moved in and built new homes for an incoming population
I dont think so!!

Give your wee head a wobble....see the truth.Israel was looking for an excuse to finish of the job they started in the landgrabs.The road for demolition and rebuilding has already been started this is Israels end game.
The family I know who this happened to 30 years ago and who have lived in Scotland since are saddened that the western worls has allowed this ,indeed encouraged it by not stopping Israel decades ago.NO OTHER NATION would have been allowed to behave in this way !! The victim of WW11 and the years leading to it has become an equally vile opressor

Sago

Hamas poked the hornets nest, what did they expect?

I've wondered that since the day it happened.