Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

halfpint1

Sago

Hamas poked the hornets nest, what did they expect?

I've wondered that since the day it happened.

Neither Hamas nor Netanyahu and the right wing Zionists who support him want a two state solution, they have made that very clear. The Abraham Accords were the first step on a very long road to building some sort of peace between Israel and it's neighbours, but not the Palestinians, they had not been involved in any of the negotiations. I think it will have been very obvious to Israel that there was a strong possibility of Hamas doing something to upset the negotiations but Netanyahu still chose to ignore the evidence that had been presented to him that Hamas was preparing an attack and the decision was still made to move troops away from protecting the kibbutz near to Gaza to the West Bank, leaving them liable to attack. Who poked whom is therefore debatable but the Gazans were not to blame but they are paying the price.

Yes, you need to read what happened in the year to the run up to Oct7th. It isn’t so straightforward as one might expect.

This won’t end until either Gaza is razed to the ground, with all the attendant casualties, or the hostages are released. Neither side are willing to give an inch. I don’t have the answer. None of us do.

Gaza was where the Philistines of biblical times lived, the fight between the Israelites and those living in that region has been going on forever.No doubt will keep going on until the end of time.

Apparently quite a few Israeli soldiers think so.
What are Israeli kids being indoctrinated with in school or by their parents?

I despise the leaders of Hamas, living it up in safety and luxury in Qatar. They have caused all this death and destruction with their twisted ideology and their hatred. It’s not just the people of Gaza and Israel who have suffered, the antisemitism this has stirred up all over the world has made Jews feel afraid in their homes, streets, schools, and workplaces. Anti Muslim rhetoric has also increased, certainly in Britain, I’m unsure about elsewhere. There are no winners in this conflict.

Nanna 8, I guess it is "the end of time "that worries the West so much that it won't take action against Israel. Israel as the spearhead of civilised democracy in the Middle East. If the west were to take action and stop the genocide a general nuclear war would ensue.

There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE .
Netanyahu's government and previous Israeli governments have been stirring this for 70 years .There is no justification for their actions and as for the clowns in the Knesset who think every child above 4 years old is complicit is just wicked .

Yes, why did Hamas attack so fiercely on October the 7th? Were they following instructions from Iran?
And no, GNs, nobody on here has forgotten the horrors of that attack, or approves of it, I hope.
Does anyone believe that Netanyahu is the best leader for Israel at this time? Or that he is staying in power to avoid dealing with previous charges against him?
Does anyone believe that the children of Gaza should be allowed to starve to death?
Would be interesting to see if there is any consesus among us on this thread.

Apologies 'consensus'

I don’t think killing a whole population can ever be justified, and I feel ashamed that we are as a country are complicit in continuing to supply arms to Israel. We have also, suspended funding to UNRWA, without firm evidence against them, which is just deepening the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Innocent people, whole families, are suffering and dying daily, as are those attempting to help them.

I’m pleased to see that the majority of U.K. public support a ceasefire.

As at December 2023 68% of Israel’s weaponry were from USA, 28% from Germany that leaves 4% from other countries including the U.K.

If the UK stops supplying Israel it will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

(Source Google)

GrannyGravy13

As at December 2023 68% of Israel’s weaponry were from USA, 28% from Germany that leaves 4% from other countries including the U.K.

If the UK stops supplying Israel it will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

(Source Google)

It may not make a difference to the number of arms Israel has but it would make a statement and maybe others would follow.

Jackiest

GrannyGravy13

As at December 2023 68% of Israel’s weaponry were from USA, 28% from Germany that leaves 4% from other countries including the U.K.

If the UK stops supplying Israel it will make absolutely no difference whatsoever.

(Source Google)

It may not make a difference to the number of arms Israel has but it would make a statement and maybe others would follow.

If only…

“Yes, why did Hamas attack so fiercely on October the 7th? Were they following instructions from Iran?”

Hamas thought they had smuggled enough arms in to take on Israel and International Opinion would prevent Israel from an invasion.

They were wrong on both counts!, if the US can’t or won’t stop Israel from continuing nobody else is likely to. Netenyanu has a majority in his parliament and will continue until the job is done

Maremia

Yes, why did Hamas attack so fiercely on October the 7th? Were they following instructions from Iran?
And no, GNs, nobody on here has forgotten the horrors of that attack, or approves of it, I hope.
Does anyone believe that Netanyahu is the best leader for Israel at this time? Or that he is staying in power to avoid dealing with previous charges against him?
Does anyone believe that the children of Gaza should be allowed to starve to death?
Would be interesting to see if there is any consesus among us on this thread.

Read this and previous threads. With few exception, the consensus is in favour of a ceasefire and political diplomatic peace. There is also broad agreement the the Hamas leadership and Netanyahu’s government won’t compromise in order to achieve this.
Hamas chose to provoke Netanyahu, in full knowledge of the response. It needs skilled negotiators but as with any conflict, opposing sides need to see peace as better and so far, there’s no sign of this

I've no idea what they expected, but I don't expect they expected the mass slaughter of civilians, with many of the survivors on the brink of starvation.

Women unable to carry full term or give birth to live babies due to a lack of nutrition. Three of four tiny babies sharing one incubator because there aren't enough and the ones that are available do not have an adequate supply of oxygen or heat, if any at all.

It's abhorrent and I don't believe it will stop even if all of the remaining hostages are returned; I wish I could but I don't.

Katie59

“Yes, why did Hamas attack so fiercely on October the 7th? Were they following instructions from Iran?”

Hamas thought they had smuggled enough arms in to take on Israel and International Opinion would prevent Israel from an invasion.

They were wrong on both counts!, if the US can’t or won’t stop Israel from continuing nobody else is likely to. Netenyanu has a majority in his parliament and will continue until the job is done

www.usip.org/publications/2023/01/what-does-israels-new-government-mean-israeli-palestinian-conflict

I don't think for one minute that Hamas thought they could defeat Israel and I doubt they give one jot about international opinion just as they don't care how many Gazans die. Netanyahu only maintains his position by a majority of 64/60 and he achieved this by bringing together disparate groups of very right wing parties which the other largest party, Yesh Atid, wouldn't touch with a proverbial barge pole. He leads a government held together with favours and promises that a large percentage of the Israelis despise. It is the most right wing government in the history of Israel and is totally focused on expansion and is determinedly against a two state solution. This is not a government coalition that wanted peace with Palestine it is one that wants to annex it. It was inevitable that Hamas would react and I have no doubt that Netanyahu knew this. I am not suggesting in any way that I am condoning the barbaric actions of Hamas I am merely putting across a different scenario.

Just to add, you are correct that Israel will continue the incursion in Gaza, they will kill more Palestinians and some of them will be members of Hamas but they will not rid Israel of the threat from Hamas (as in "get the job done" ) as they are effectively acting as a recruitment agency but they are destroying any chance of peace in that part of the Middle East.

It seems rather coincidental to me that this conflict should erupt just after the Israeli government gave permission for the development of the Gaza off shore oilfield (June 2023). Israel has for many years been the Middle Eastern state without oil. It has now opened a path to the Gaza coast. But it couldn't possibly be anything to do with that could it?

That is why I asked the question at the top of this thread.

The next question is the geographical location of the oilfield.

Gaza Marine is a natural gas field off the coast of the Gaza Strip. The Gaza Marine natural gas field is located in water about 36 kilometres (22 mi) offshore at a depth of 2,000 feet (610 m).[1] The field was discovered in 2000 by BG Group and it is estimated to contain more than 1 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.

On 18 June 2023, the Israeli government gave preliminary approval for its development.
source wiki.

Hi GNers. I'm originally from the UK but have been living in Israel for decades now.
As I posted on a previous thread, I believe I represent the average, moderate, peace-seeking, middle of the road Israeli.
I am firmly against Netanyahu and his right-wing extremist partners.
I believe that Netanyahu needs to go and make way for a more moderate leader, we truly hope that will happen but don't know when.
What I can tell you as someone who lives here and is very connected to what is happening is the following:

1. October 7th was a game changer. There was a ceasefire, and no Israelis in Gaza, on October 6th. Hamas' declared aim is the elimination of Israel and all Israelis, me included.
How do you make peace with such an entity? After they have shown what they are capable of, and sworn to repeat it, would YOU leave them in power?

2. We still have 134 hostages in Gaza. We need them OUT. Many are dead, but we want them back, to be laid to rest. There are 19 women still there, apparently being raped and sexually abused. This is unbearable. 2 young children are still there, probably dead

3. Based on points 1+2, Israel needs to ensure that Hamas cannot repeat the October 7th massacre, and we need our hostages back - an immediate ceasefire would then happen.

4. Food and supplies enter Gaza on a daily basis. Hamas steals food from its own citizens to feed its remaining forces. Israel is not restricting the entry of food and medicines, but at the same time Hamas does not allow our hostages to receive medicines, food and Red Cross visits as per International Law.

We are devastated at the situation here for over 5 months now. I appreciate those of you who are showing support and welcome a dialogue.

To those who criticize, and I am sure there are many things to criticize here (see my point above about Netanyahu) I would simply ask: "What would you do if it was your country, your citizens, being murdered, raped, burned, held hostage?"
All suggestions truly welcome
P60

Thank you for your heartfelt post Philippa, it is so very worthwhile to hear from someone on the ground, and who knows the situation.

Food and supplies enter Gaza on a daily basis

I have always believed this to be true. I have also always believed that Hamas have been stealing from the general population from before 7/10 and that they continue to steal from them now.
There is much propaganda about the situation in Gaza. Nonetheless the situation is untenable, because clearly whilst the population are not starving as is frequently claimed, there is not an abundance of food, and people are hungry. Sometimes the water goes off, but it’s not off permanently. Food and medicines are being dropped into Gaza daily and as you say, the Israelis allow food in. Soon supplies will be arriving by sea too.
Even so, the war needs to end because far too many people have died already, and the suffering is too much. But I do think that both Hamas and Netanyahu are intransigent and I don’t know how things can move forward until both are willing to compromise. The hostages must be released and the bombing must stop. Together.

Fully agree, maddyone