Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Yes Whitewave things are never straightforward. Israel is of strategic importance in the Middle East to the US and U.K. for that matter.

I don’t believe it can ever be right to flout humanitarian law, even when fighting terrorists. Surely democratic countries can be better than that? I’m sure this war will also leave many young Israeli soldiers traumatised for the rest of their lives, and sadly will not achieve its aim of destroying Hamas by killing huge numbers of innocent Palestinians.

It’s informative to read Israeli newspapers and in The Times of Israel there is an article worth reading entitled Senior Israeli official warns of growing ‘shoot first ask later’ culture in IDF

No Maybee, thank goodness, we don’t supply Putin with weapons, but that doesn’t make the crimes less because we don’t supply him.

However as I understand it, we supply only about 2% of weaponry to Israel, and it is in the form of components, so whatever the morals of it, I don’t think it would make much difference if we stopped supplying these parts.

The aid workers who were sadly killed were not, as I understand it, actually all aid workers. The three British were working for a company that supplies protection to people who work in dangerous situations, and these people could be aid workers, or others. The British were all ex military personnel. They were there to protect the aid workers from for example, being taken hostage by Hamas. It’s very sad, but we shouldn’t pretend the British were aid workers.

British ex military have been killed in Ukraine too, and also taken prisoner by the Russians.

Jaberwok

Presumably the leaders of Hamas, sitting comfortably in Qatar will also be prosecuted for their unprovoked terror attack and kidnapping? Rules and regulations for conflict are easy in theory, not so easy in practice, particularly when one side is completely oblivious to any. When you are fighting for your very existence against a ruthless enemy who cares little or nothing for their own people, rules and regulations tend to get thrown out of the window, you cannot operate with one hand tied behind your back, and hope that the moral high ground will save you.

Sorry the state of Israel has existed for almost 80 years. As far as I know it has never in that time been in danger of elimination and its existence is secure. It would of course be far more secure and supported by the full strength of the UN should it comply with the UN ruling to withdraw to the 1967 borders. If a country conquers land should it then be surprised when the rightful occupants of that land rise up?

maddyone

No Maybee, thank goodness, we don’t supply Putin with weapons, but that doesn’t make the crimes less because we don’t supply him.

However as I understand it, we supply only about 2% of weaponry to Israel, and it is in the form of components, so whatever the morals of it, I don’t think it would make much difference if we stopped supplying these parts.

The aid workers who were sadly killed were not, as I understand it, actually all aid workers. The three British were working for a company that supplies protection to people who work in dangerous situations, and these people could be aid workers, or others. The British were all ex military personnel. They were there to protect the aid workers from for example, being taken hostage by Hamas. It’s very sad, but we shouldn’t pretend the British were aid workers.

British ex military have been killed in Ukraine too, and also taken prisoner by the Russians.

Agreed they weren't actually aid workers, but they were contracted to World Center Kitchen to protect the aid workers, which is common practice in conflict zones. They were in a "deconflicted zone", which means there was an agreement there would be no fighting and the IDF had been notified of the convoy's movements. The perceived threat would have been Hamas and looters, not the IDF, who claimed they supported aid reaching the displaced people in north Gaza. I really don't see the relevance of the the three people from Solace Global not being directly employed by WCK - they were contracted by them to do a job - and the IDF knew what they were doing.

The British ex-military in Ukraine were actually fighting for Ukraine. The Solace Global workers weren't fighting. There's a difference.

maddyone

No Maybee, thank goodness, we don’t supply Putin with weapons, but that doesn’t make the crimes less because we don’t supply him.

However as I understand it, we supply only about 2% of weaponry to Israel, and it is in the form of components, so whatever the morals of it, I don’t think it would make much difference if we stopped supplying these parts.

The aid workers who were sadly killed were not, as I understand it, actually all aid workers. The three British were working for a company that supplies protection to people who work in dangerous situations, and these people could be aid workers, or others. The British were all ex military personnel. They were there to protect the aid workers from for example, being taken hostage by Hamas. It’s very sad, but we shouldn’t pretend the British were aid workers.

British ex military have been killed in Ukraine too, and also taken prisoner by the Russians.

So different lives have different values? An aid workers life who is ex military is collateral damage, a Palestinian life is less important than an Israeli one because ‘they all support Hamas anyway which makes them all terrorists’. Or am I misinterpreting some of the comments on this thread. I’d like you to make those comments to the families of those men who were killed by the IDF the other day….I can’t believe some of the comments on this thread: in fact I find them sickening.

Yes I absolutely agree that morally Israel should go back to its original borders, there is certainly plenty of fault there. Having said that victorious countries rarely go back to their original borders after being attacked, until another conflict makes them. Europe in the 20th century was a good example of this. Perhaps if certain Arab countries hadn't attacked Israel in 1967 we wouldn't be where we are, as Gaza was under Egyptian military rule from 1949-1956, and again from 1957-1967 when Israel took it from Egypt.

Israel stops defending itself, more Israeli babies are raped, more Israeli hostages taken.

Aww how sad but bravo Israel for listening to us and abiding by
Humanitarian Law.

This is what those constantly attacking Israel are saying

Exactly Annie. Being on the moral high ground is very commendable but unfortunately more often than not, suicidal,

I keep reading here how Israel have not abided by the rules of war. How thousands of Palestinians sadly, have been killed by Israel's actions.

Israel is at war with a terrorist organisation that does not abide by the rules of war. Israel should and does follow the rules of war and the targeting of the aid workers and their protection (against Hamas) was a tragic mistake by Israel who immediately realised their error and admitted their mistake. It is a sad fact that war produces casualties and awful 'though it is that this incident happened, those concerned were in a war zone. I realise that this sounds blithe and it is but in war, mistakes happen.

Can you imagine Hamas admitting such a thing?

The only reason why there have been so many casualties in Gaza is purely and simply (but no matter how many times these words are written, they are skimmed over and ignored) because Hamas had their entire structure of war (of command posts, rocket launchers and thousands of personnel) embedded IN the Palestinian community.

Israel gave notice to many areas, that there would be action and at least it gave people a chance to escape. I know their plight it awful and I agree but what should Israel have done/do?

Could someone please tell me how Israel was to deal with these murdering terrorists? Ask them to nicely to please go away?

Maybee I find your post, presumably directed at me, quite offensive. I did not say at any point that that different lives have different values so please do not insult me by implying I did.

candelle Israel certainly has not abided by the rules of law. I suspect that Netanyahu will be tried as a war criminal in the years to come.

Israel has the right to defend itself - of course it does, but it does not have the right to attack convoys, it does not have the right to target children, it does not have the right to withhold water, it does not have the right to withhold food, it does not have the right with old medical supplies, it does not have the right to destroy hospitals, it does not have the right to destroy peoples housing. All these rules have been broken by Israel who is signed up to Geneva convention.

However I will add that if a person sells their services as protection personnel to companies that provide this service, for profit I imagine, then that person is fully aware of the risks and chooses to take those risks, presumably for a good salary. It is very sad for both themselves and their families, but they took the risks voluntarily, unlike either the Palestinian civilians or the Israeli civilians who have been killed in this war.

Please do not put words in my mouth in future.

Israel is not. Targeting children,

No. They’re just ‘collateral damage’ aren’t they….

Anniebach

Israel is not. Targeting children,

According to surgeons they are treating many children with single bullet wounds to the head or chest.

Israeli snipers are targeting children - absolutely no question.

MayBee70

No. They’re just ‘collateral damage’ aren’t they….

They chose, the Palestinian civilians and Israeli civilians didn’t!

What. All of them? Every last child? The ones that have died and have lost limbs?? It seems to me that some people on here regard some human lives as far more important than others. I really need to avoid gransnet for a while because I feel sick reading some of this stuff….

According to surgeons ! the surgeon who said he/she amputated both legs of a little girl without anaesthetic even though half the little girl’s face had been blown away ? Didn’t believe that either

What are you talking about?
Who said children, either Palestinian or Israeli, chose?
Protection personnel choose to enter dangerous areas. Because it’s dangerous, they are well paid. Their choice.

What you do or do not believe is entirely up to you, but as long as you make it clear that it is your belief and not fact, that is fine by me.

Definitely their choice maddy

Are you talking to me Whitewave.

Quote Whitewavemark2 Thu 04-Apr-24 13:31:58
What you do or do not believe is entirely up to you, but as long as you make it clear that it is your belief and not fact, that is fine by me.

And you will say ‘allegedly’ when repeating a conversation on
radio, tv or uTube .

I believe absolutely nothing from Palestinian sources it’s all propaganda nothing independant , all of the video footage could be faked.
I don’t support Israeli action but I am inclined to believe their reports at least they own up to making mistakes, Gaza is a war zone, aid workers know they are risking their lives,
I believe absolutely nothing from Palestinian sources it’s all propaganda nothing independant , all of the video footage could be faked.
I think it’s strange that 3 armed ex UK military were allowed by Hamas to roam in Gaza, you would think that armed UK personnel the last people Hamas would want.